It's Not About the Money: In Search of Grounded Fundraising
For us, ministry fundraising is the overflow of a deep sense of purpose. In “It’s Not About the Money”, we look past formulas, and explore both the nuance and the big picture of the fundraising journey. It’s not about tips, tricks, or clever phrasing. It’s about being grounded. Each episode focuses on an aspect of real life as a support-seeker. We hold space for both practice and theory. Join us as we explore the truth that, while the funding is essential, it’s not about the money.
It's Not About the Money: In Search of Grounded Fundraising
25. CliftonStrengths Coach Rebekah C on Bringing Strengths to Fundraising
Last season, we took a couple of episodes to explore the Enneagram for insight into our
motivations and how we show up uniquely in the world (and in fundraising). Today, we’re turning to another tool meant to help us identify our natural talents and leverage those for our good and the good of those around us – you might be familiar with it -- the Strengthsfinder.
Our guest today is a certified Strengthsfinder coach and has a contagious excitement for blossoming the unique strengths we each bring into life and ministry. We won’t have enough time today to do the Strengthsfinder justice; but, we hope this conversation launches you toward developing and embracing your own strengths!
Clifton Strengthsfinder
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For anyone out there that's listening and just overwhelmed by, by funding by support raising and maybe even not sure that they can go into this life and into this work. I just want to say God has has given you everything that you need. And also he will be giving you even more
Heather Winchell:welcome to it's not about the money, a podcast in search of grounded fundraising. I'm Heather, and together with my co host, Andy, we look beyond the Quick Tips and formulas. Join us as we explore the nuance and complexity ministry fundraising. If you want to thrive in partner development, not just survive it. This is the place for you.
Andy Brennan:Welcome back, everybody. Last season, we took a couple of episodes to explore the Enneagram for insight into our motivations, and how do we show up uniquely in the world, and in fundraising. Today, we're turning to another tool meant to help us identify our natural talents, and leverage those for our good and the good of others around us. You might be familiar with it. The Gallup Clifton Strengths Assessment, aka StrengthsFinder as the front inner cover of the book notes, all too often, our natural talents go untapped. From the cradle to the cubicle, we devote more time to fixing our shortcomings than to developing our strengths. Our guest today is a Gallup certified strengths coach and has a contagious excitement for blossoming, the unique strengths we each bring into life and ministry. We won't have enough time today to do the StrengthsFinder justice. But we hope this conversation launches you toward developing and embracing your own strengths. So Heather, would you like to introduce our guest?
Heather Winchell:I sure would. So our guest today is Rebecca C. And she is coming with all kinds of experience into this conversation. Like Andy mentioned, she is a Gallup certified strengths coach. She has also lived and worked in support based work both overseas and in the stateside context. And she has worked in coaching people, not only in the StrengthsFinder, but also in fundraising and in working towards life overseas and in life. So with that, Rebecca, we would love to turn it over to you and just ask you to share with us your experiences in fundraising, coaching and support based ministry.
Unknown:Well, thanks so much for having me on today. It's a joy to be with you all and to share many things that I am passionate about. I am very passionate about the nation's and sending people to the nation's. And so that is really the heartbeat of why I do what I do and why I've been doing all the different things that I've been doing. Over the years, I had the honor and privilege of serving in China myself, I got that idea because my parents actually served overseas after they graduated from college, but they felt called to come back to the US and really serve as senders via via conduit to the local church and really help send people out. And so I'm I'm honored that I get to be living out some of their legacy and calling. So not only did I serve overseas in China, for a year, I also had the privilege to lead a couple of short term trips. Shortly after that I I worked as a sender mobilizing and sending people and helping people fundraise to go overseas for about seven years, actually, that that time flew by. But it was just like an honor to really walk with people as they were really questioning if that's what they should do. And then helping them get there even walking through the joys and the challenges of family and, and things like that. Fast forward several years and a bunch of other different jobs I am currently serving stateside in a faith based ministry, we focus on discipleship, not just here in the US, but around the world with a worldwide partnership as well. And so joining this organization included raising a lot of funds for my salary, even just to live here in the US. So I'm well familiar with the process of fundraising. It's always challenging. It's always an opportunity to see how God can bless and provide and even help people partner and partake in the kingdom as well. So yeah, part of why I joined this organization, and it made it easier knowing that I have done this before and had helped others so I've seen it happen. So I'm happy to share today and maybe, hopefully encourage others as they fundraise and prepare To serve the Lord and the nations and beyond
Andy Brennan:quick question like, except for the difference in the amount of probably that you were raising. Did you notice some differences as you were raising for international placement versus that domestic placement?
Unknown:Yeah, that's a great question. I, I feel like it's sometimes a little bit more challenging to raise funds for stateside work. But I did, I did have a couple of people who are on my team, my partnership team who decided to support me because they have a heart for our nation and for people here. So probably pros and cons. I think I was surprised when that person said that to me, because I think my assumption after really focusing overseas so much was that people would more likely support people going overseas, but I think it can be both. And I think we can find people with a heart for people in our neighborhood in our backyard as
Heather Winchell:well. Absolutely. Yeah. Very cool. Okay. So for someone who has never heard of the strengths finder book or assessment, could you give us a brief overview?
Unknown:Sure. Strengths really started with a guy by the name of Don Clifton. He was an educator and researcher at the University of Nebraska. And he had this question that he did a ton of research on. His question was, what would happen if we think about what is right with people, rather than fixating on what is wrong with them? And I think that's such a powerful question. What will happen if we think about what's right with people, instead of fixating on what's wrong with them? So he went on to really study all sorts of people that were successful in their fields, there's a technical report with all the data and the research and the science available. If you're curious, I know some people out there will be. So you can look into the background of his research. But he basically helped develop an assessment called the strengths finder. And they really identified several themes or talents, just pools of different things that people were good at the people that were top top in their field, let's say like Steve Jobs, and Oprah Winfrey, and just you know, all these people that have done really well in their careers. And he Yeah, he discovered a variety of different talents. I like to kind of share a few terms as well, because I throw around the term talent and strength sort of simultaneously. Don Clifton, and all his research that he defined talent as a naturally recurring pattern of thought feeling or behavior that can be productively applied. And then strength is the ability to consistently produce a positive outcome through near perfect performance in a specific tasks. So really, this assessment serves as an accelerator to identifying what people are naturally best at and gives us clues of how we can choose to invest. I sometimes like to give people a little exercise, let's do a handwriting challenge. I have them start by taking out a pencil with their non dominant hand, and then doing this time to challenge and see if they can increase the time on that. And sometimes they increase it a little bit, but then we go to their dominant handwriting hand and say, Okay, now let's increase the time, the amount of time that it took for us to complete this challenge. And we can always increase something that we're already naturally good at. So that's just a quick example of how investing in something that already comes easily to us. It's, it's just a better investment of our time. So that's
Heather Winchell:a really helpful example. Yeah, that's great. And one that I'm feeling keenly, because my son recently broke his wrist. So he can't write with his dominant hand. And he's been well, actually, he's been outsourcing his writing to mom and dad, because writing with this other hand takes a long meeting. Yeah, he's telecommuting. There you go. Maybe that's a strength. Yeah, yeah. But that's, that's a really great example. I can see how that would be really helpful in framing, just helping people understand how they can increase natural abilities. Yeah.
Andy Brennan:And this is helpful just to give us a review of of the stuff I've done the string finder. I don't know if you've done the string finder. Yeah, for a couple of times. And apparently, according to the cover, over 4 million copies have been sold. So but we don't take for granted that everybody has seen it. It's really helpful to define the terms of the differences between the talent and the strength.
Unknown:Yeah, yeah, I would say that when you take the assessment, you get Your talents, they may or may not be developed into strengths yet how much time you've had to really practice or use them or even, I like to compare them to like a little muscle to, if you've spent time working out that muscle, it will grow into more of a strength.
Andy Brennan:So if if people are curious, and they want to take the assessment, do they have to buy the book?
Unknown:Yeah, that's a good question. No, there are a lot of different ways you can take the assessment. The book, if you buy a new copy of the book, it will come with a code in the back. There are actually several books that come with a code in the back. And up tip from me, if you're ever at a secondhand store, looking through their books section, you might spot one of these books on the shelf StrengthsFinder 2.0. There's also one called strengths based leadership, there's one called well being at work, there's also one called it's the manager. So all of those books, at least if they're new, or there might be an unused code in the back, that might be a great way to purchase that you can also purchase the code through the Gallup website, they have both the top five strengths coach just to learn your top five strengths, so you can upgrade and get your full 34 listed in a report. Gotcha. There's also several different reports that you can discover Clifton Strengths for sales, Clifton Strengths for leaders, managers, more and more at lots of different things a whole suite. Yeah, I know. And I mentioned Clifton Strengths for sales, because I actually, I paid for that report myself, I already knew my strengths, but it's targeted. It's a targeted report that basically tells you how you can sell better. And while fundraising is not sales, it does have some of the same skill set. And so I actually learned a lot and did some journaling. After I got that report for myself.
Heather Winchell:You know, we've referenced before a book by Daniel Pink, called To Sell Is Human. And actually in that book, they define sales as just moving people moving people to part with time or energy or resources. And so, yes, I think we have to be very careful, because I think people can be very reactive to thinking of fundraising as sales. But if you think of it and frame it in terms of the casting vision and moving people of presenting opportunity that is worthy of their investment, whatever that investment might be, if it's time or money or whatever, I think that can be a really helpful reframe, to utilize some of these resources like strengths based selling, or the the assessment you've said,
Andy Brennan:and you're moving people towards something that you believe in, and they probably believe in as well. Yeah, right. Yeah, absolutely. If you later twist their arm into something.
Heather Winchell:Right, right. I have a question for you, Rebecca. So. So I initially took the StrengthsFinder for the first time and got five strengths. And then I actually moved into a management role and took it again, as part of something that our team was doing. And it was actually slightly different. Do you see that happen, where people are kind of operating in different lanes, their strengths, or talents, different talents might rise to the top five?
Unknown:Yeah, I'm so glad you asked this, because I think it's pretty common for people to retake the assessment. But some more background on the assessment that I didn't share yet is that you are born with natural talents, and they'll rise to the top the more that we practice or utilize them. So I've seen folks maybe have a slight change if they have retaken the assessment, where that our top 10 Just move around a little bit depending on what they're utilizing more. So I actually don't encourage retaking the assessment, I do encourage maybe unlocking the full 30 For myself did take the assessment, I think three or four times, and not really the same top four in the same order, multiple times. And so I think there's a lot underneath that when I work with people in coaching through their strengths. I like to dive into sometimes, maybe questions of did you hope you would get different strengths? What was the thought behind wanting to see what else you had?
Andy Brennan:Or were you disappointed with your strengths?
Unknown:Exactly? Like these things are naturally good and beautiful about you? Like what's underneath that? Are you not able to utilize them? Well, are you hoping for different results? And so that takes a bit of time to unpack because typically, oftentimes people will even start a new job or a new company, and they'll be like, Please take this. But as a coach, I'm a big fan of rather than retake it. Let's talk through maybe your 6789 10 and see maybe what might be bubbling up to the top right now.
Heather Winchell:Yeah, that makes sense.
Andy Brennan:So just a cool anecdote that I've seen. My child is a recent high school graduate, and so a lot of his peers are as well. So I was talking to one of my friends whose daughter just went off to college. And she went to Abilene Christian in Texas. And I thought it was really cool. They had all the freshmen take a Strength Finders test, and then printed on their their name tag on the lanyard. It was their name and their top five strings. So as they're walking around, getting to know each other, meeting each other teachers, everybody kind of has this little window into who they are and what they're good at, huh. That's really cool. Yeah,
Unknown:a lot of universities are doing that. Okay, awesome. Yeah, yeah. In fact, that's actually how I first heard of the Strengths Assessment myself was I went to Azusa Pacific University for grad school. And part of my graduate assistantship was actually taking the assessment. And that's when I learned about it for the first time. Very cool, I think just set up students for success in their university and college young adult years even. Yeah.
Heather Winchell:And you know, something I've already learned just from this conversation is that I appreciated that you talked about, you know, that five, or that 10, however many you're given as being natural talents, but then kind of requiring a little bit of cultivation for them to become strengths. I don't think that I had really thought about that. I mean, I've read the book. I've had people speak into that. But that was just a really good reminder for me. So you originally heard about the strengths finder at Azusa Pacific, I guess, let us know your journey from there. Because now you're coaching others, I'd love to hear more. Yeah,
Unknown:I took the assessment just because it was part of the requirements. This was almost 20 years ago now. So really strengths was somewhat new, Don Clifton developed his research in the 1990s, even. And from that positive psychology kind of got started around then to suit spent a whole whole new way of thinking, I was a psychology major myself, in the US. So it was kind of a neat way just to go back to grad school. In one of my assistant ships, it was my role my job actually to work with student leaders, who were then coaching freshmen through a freshman orientation and student leadership development process. And as a part of that, we just really, we dived deeply into the strengths of each one of our student leaders, just to get to know what each one of the 34 is, we would call out what we see what we saw, was good in each person, and really see those strengths in action. And so I actually had a really key and pivotal moment when a student that I was talking to said, Rebecca, I see your empathy, strength, that's your number one strength all the time. And it's so beneficial. It's powerful. And I so appreciate it. Because it lets me know that when I'm sharing something with you, it means something. And I know that you are with me. And what that student didn't know is that I had always been called to sensitive and to emotional growing up. And so that was the beginning of really God reframing something that I can't help but be into something that actually is productive, beneficial, helpful. Ministry related. A student really called it out and me. And so that was kind of the beginning for me of what if that person isn't just quiet? Maybe they're a deep thinker. I want to know what they're thinking, what if this person doesn't just hate conflict, they actually see the ways that we can connect. Really, it turned my whole frame of reference upside down into just seeing people and seeing myself from a totally different lens. What if, what if what's always bugged me about me or about another person is actually a good thing? And what does that remind me of that reminds me of, of all the passages in scripture that talks about parts of the body, and really appreciating a different part of the body and the way that it functions the way that we need it. We can't function on our own. I mean, if I'm an elbow, that's no use to the rest of the body, if I'm just separated from the other part, right? I need to be connected. And so in a way, strength is nothing new. I believe that this is it. This is just a accelerated way. Like I said, a got to see people from a gun design way. So that's been a little bit of my journey. wind strength. Nice.
Andy Brennan:Well, let's take a moment to kind of cross over into the fundraising arena. So were you aware of your strings for your first season of fundraising or support based ministry? And then What difference do you think that makes in your ongoing fundraising is either identified and kind of leaned in and kind of leaned into those?
Unknown:I wasn't aware of the very first time I went overseas. Yeah, I think that was the for grad school. And so I just sort of did what was told did what was expected. Even recently, as I have, have gone through some training, we have excellent training at the organization that I served with, but they presented it in such a way as to be this is exactly how it's done. Please follow the script, please do these things. And it was actually really challenging for me. And I started reflecting a lot on why why is this so challenging, this shouldn't be so hard for me, because I have some experience, even in coaching others and, and really seeing people. I mean, I hate to use the word success, but be successful in their own different creative ways sometimes. And so I really started reflecting on why that is, and even just kind of talking with the Lord about how I could use my strengths and what comes naturally to me, what I want to do more of, I have a lot of relationship building strength. So really, I'm just like, I just want to go visit and be with all the people and share with them what I believe God is calling me to do. And so when I started to reframe, how to raise funds, and how to invite people to partner with me in the work that God is doing, that's when it got really exciting. And that's when I even noticed a shift in in myself. And I think it can be the key for those who might just be a little bit fearful of fundraising or frustrated or stuck at a certain point, that could be a big shift that could be helpful for people.
Heather Winchell:I think that's really powerful, because I think there can be in, in the North American fundraising training space, I think there can be a lot of emphasis on maybe structures or formulas that have worked well. Right. And so there's, there's an, there's kind of a leaning on that structure, because it has worked well for many people. But I think that there is just so much wisdom in taking a step back and looking like biblically, did God always do this in the same way? No. Did his people always go to him for need in the same way? No. And as you said, like looking at your own design, and the ways that you've been gifted and the weaknesses that you have, and just all of these things, I mean, if you're not like looking to and needing and depending on a formula, and instead kind of like engaging the Spirit in your own person. Through this process. I just like Andy and I say all the time, it's really such a powerful space of formation, and true dependence on God, and really growing to understand and know yourself and God and see his heart for other people, rather than just kind of doing the next thing on the list. You know, so I think that's a really important thing to point out. Right
Andy Brennan:and taken to the extreme. You can lead you can start to depend on the formula versus depending on Yeah,
Heather Winchell:Lord. Yeah. Which makes sense when something if it works, working.
Unknown:Yeah. Right. What I've learned is that I think there's some best practices like some of these key points should always be integrated somehow, into the process, like, My People need to know that there's something new in my life. I need to communicate with them and not take offense if they don't respond after one contact. Yes. So there's some key principles. But I think the way how we do it can kind of be tailored to us. And even how, I mean, I think about even generational differences, I would make phone calls to some people that I knew would answer probably be the highlight of their day, I would text others, because I knew that they wouldn't pick up the phone no matter what. Right? So Right? Yeah, I thought about that.
Heather Winchell:Yeah. I thought this was really interesting. So in preparation for this call, I went back into my StrengthsFinder book, just to kind of get some fodder for our conversation. And I was intrigued by this. So in the opening pages of the book, it notes that people who are routinely functioning in roles outside of their strengths are more likely to be less engaged in their work. And by contrast, it notes that studies indicate that people who do have the opportunity to focus on their strengths every day, are six times as likely to be engaged in their jobs, and more than three times as likely to report having an excellent quality of life in general. Not just good, but excellent. So I want to point this out because it feels important to find the ways within support based work and ministry to incorporate your strengths. I mean, do you think it's fair to say that knowing and operating in our strengths is critical to our effectiveness and longevity?
Unknown:I do, I absolutely do. Because I'm sure you've talked about this on your podcast already. support raising is about relationships, and it's about impact. And how we choose to connect people to that impact. I think there's some flexibility there. But I'm sure that everyone listening to this would have no greater desire than to see people stay long term on the field fully funded, where they're called, and really have excellent quality of life, that rest I find myself energized, and even rested when I am working in my strengths, whether that's my work, work ministry, or whether that's the funding part of my work. And so I think when we're operating outside of our natural talents, and strengths, that's when it starts to feel burdensome. And I mean, I could talk about this for a long time. But in our western North American culture, I think we are all very individualistic. And we don't tend to partner up with people. It's funny when you mentioned that Heather earlier, your son and not being able to write with his dominant hand right now. But But delegating or relying on parents, I was actually thinking that's, that's strengths based as well. He is partnering up with someone who can help him in an area where he is not strong. And I just think it goes back to parts of the body. What if we were to rely on in deeper ways, people that are better at things than we are? To not constantly have to reinvent the wheel or do things new and different ways? I just think there's so much wisdom there in in that partnership piece. And it's, it's a way of honoring and valuing others. And yeah, hopefully, we'll keep people on the field and fully funded a whole lot longer to
Heather Winchell:Yeah, it will. And I think it's I mean, it's so biblical to think of having a team or a group or you know, a church, or, you know, certainly in Visio, we encourage people to be sent by a church, we also encourage people to have a core team around them, a team of people with different strengths that they bring in a very intentional and committed way. So yeah, that, yeah, absolutely.
Andy Brennan:I think ultimately, and this is probably this is our heart organizationally, and probably like your organization's heart as well, like, we don't want people to leave ministry, for any other reason than the Lord is calling them out of that into a new season of their life. So to the extent that we can mitigate that, through some thoughtfulness, and through engaging this, these materials, it's really a blessing in a kingdom, when
Heather Winchell:well and encouraging people like Rebecca just said, encouraging people to, to, like lean on the body and not just feel like it's all on them, you know, because I think that a lot of a lot of support based workers can feel like they just have this overwhelming job description. I mean, because in some ways, you know, to, to do effective work in ministry and to the culture that you're called, and to, you know, manage your own personal friendships and relationships and family and then to me, and I draw your partnership relationships. And I mean, there's really a lot of dynamic pieces, but but I think that by design, were never meant to do it alone.
Andy Brennan:Yeah, yes. But you're right. Like it speaks to the importance of being placed on a team and operating in a community of believers. Rather than trying to like, giddy up, cowboy up, get her done by yourself. Like, that doesn't work. Yeah, yeah. Rebecca, would you say that there are some strengths that lend themselves that are more helpful for fundraising or there's an angle of just about any gift that you can kind of calibrate and and lean on to help you fundraise?
Unknown:I would say yes, and yes. For those who are familiar with Clifton Strengths, there are four different domains or categories, if you will, of types of strength. upon first glance, you might think that Relationship Building strengths and Influencing strengths might be maybe a leg up in terms of fundraising. But if I were coaching someone through their strengths and funding at the same time, I guarantee 100%, there would be there would be really nuggets of wisdom that they would find in using their let's say, strategic or Executing strengths. So So the other two domains, terms of funding as well, I think there's, there's always something that we can be doing, and really ways that we can be trusting God in each and every one of the strengths. And I'm so grateful that I don't have just one I have all 34 actually are just more prominent than others. And so maybe I, maybe I reached for my number seven communication when I need to write a letter so that I don't write too much. But also that I use and choose the words and the stories that are going to be really meaningful. Maybe I used my belief strength, that's one of the Executing strengths to say, Well, I really need to get this letter out at this time of year because of your end to funding that helps me prioritize and get things done. So I think I think there's a way that almost every all of the strengths really can be utilized. It might require a little bit more creativity for some of us. But I wouldn't want anyone listening to this to think, oh, because I have these strengths. I'm not going to be great fundraising. That's actually the opposite of the whole strengths, philosophy, right? We focus on what's right, and what's good, and what's already strong in you. So so you'd
Andy Brennan:never want someone to say I don't have a relator skill in my top five. So I'm just going to kind of, I'm going to be bad at this. I'm going to be terrible at fundraising.
Unknown:Nope. In fact, if I was coaching that person, I'd be like, you might not have that. But what do you have? Yeah, I think that's a, that's a mindset shift. Again, we are so quick to go what's negative? What's wrong with us? When we have it? It almost brings to mind this concept that I refer to as the poverty mindset. Right, especially when I was working on fundraising. Oh, there's not enough money. I don't know enough people. God's not going to provide now did I outright say that? No, I didn't. Did I feel that sometimes and act like I believed that that was true? Yes, yes. Yeah. And so I think when we get into that downward spiral, there's not enough I don't have what it takes. This is too hard. It's just, I mean, quite honestly, it's convicting, it's, it's me not trusting God. It's me not utilizing what He has given me. I haven't shared this yet. But I'm so fascinated by the parable of the talents in Scripture. root word for talent, even in the Greek actually is related to our modern date, word talent. And that's what we've been talking about is talent, right? Find that so fascinating. But that's the premise of that parable as well. Is that that manager, that supervisor coming back and saying, What did you do with the one talent, the five talents, the 10 talents that I gave you? Like, how did you invest what I gave you? And so I think that really applies to a lot of things in funding, and just the ways that God wants to continue to grow and to shape our character along the way, as well, as I was in the middle of this process. Recently, I had a couple of key mentors, just really wise, godly people say, I think God is using this process to actually prepare you for ministry, as hard as it is, right now. He's going to use these lessons that you are learning to, to really shape your faith and your trust in Him in other ways that you're going to need as you enter this work and this life, so I thought that was really wise. Yes, 100% we're
Heather Winchell:really always advocating for the formation of this time for your life and for ministry. And so we would wholeheartedly agree. Yeah, I thought I had while you were speaking, Rebecca is just, you know, not just the ways we tend to maybe highlight our weaknesses or see what we don't have. But I think something else that can can really highlight that or that we can get trapped in this comparison. You know, I remember the first time I took the strengths finder, my top strength was like, a strength that was kind of amongst my cohort seen as like, whoa, that's the one you want for this job. Can you guess what it was? No. Okay.
Andy Brennan:I'm gonna guess.
Heather Winchell:Yeah, no, they are all great. But but the point I'm trying to make is that it was Whoo. And everybody thought that was the one that would be Well, no wonder you're so good, or something like that. Right. But I think that you know, what you said earlier about just seeing how different domains might show up at different elements of the process of cultivating relationships, right? Because maybe I have to Hi, whoo. But maybe my executing is low. And so, you know, I'm, I've shared this example before on the podcast. But after we had our first baby, I wrote all kinds of thank you notes, and then never mailed them, which I'm pretty sure it's like a low executive thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, executing domain. And so. So I think what I'm trying to say is, whenever we're looking at other people's top strengths, and thinking and assigning meaning to that, or assigning value, and then looking at ourselves and thinking, well, it should be like this, then we're not free to explore the good and right ways that we show up to the world, right? And like you said, we need the full body, the hand and the foot in the ear, and all of it right elbow pit. And D. Nobody is an elbow pit.
Unknown:Maybe the teenage boys are? Yeah, but
Andy Brennan:yeah, I've done a few elbow pads. So I'm guessing Rebecca, I could I could open this book. And I could point to any of these strengths here. And he could probably tell me, just creatively, like how this strength could benefit you in the fundraising world.
Unknown:I could tell you maybe the thing is, if you had it in your top five, or 10, you're probably already naturally better at it than I am. So what I would like to do is even ask you, yeah, how are already utilizing this? And how can we translate that area of strength for you into the fundraising part of what you're working on right
Heather Winchell:now? Yeah. And that was the other thought I had, it could be really helpful for somebody to just gain awareness and sit down and kind of look at a grid of their strengths and the domains that they're in and think of tasks of life or fundraising that would fit into that and kind of be empowered by like, Oh, this is how this might show up. And this is, this is how I want to utilize this, right?
Andy Brennan:I just love the premise of like, let's accelerate what we're good at, rather than being kind of moderate that everything.
Heather Winchell:Right, yeah, I have a question for you. I'm wondering if you've ever seen strengths go toxic, like an over reliance on them
Andy Brennan:stir strings on steroids?
Unknown:It's possible. It's actually happens quite often with all of us. I think, like you mentioned earlier, sometimes people think certain strengths are more meaningful or better than others. And sometimes we let our own strengths run the whole show. I had another strengths mentor of mine and say, because she was worked with elementary and middle middle school students, but she would often say like, Are you letting that strength be the line leader right now? Do they need to take the lead? Always? Can we can we trade up? Who leaves that line? And so sometimes I think what we need to do is, is really look at our 234 through 10 strengths and say which one would be most beneficial right now? Or which couple of them could I pair up for what this situation is calling for and even really be prayerful and mindful of that? I'll give an example I I've had to move a couple times recently, the a ministry right and lots of moving nuns involved. And I am low in Executing strengths as well as strategic thinking strengths. So I had the realization that if I dump out all my stuff in drawers into a mess in my kitchen, for example, my arranger strength, which is my one of my few, executing themes, that's how I can get something done. So rather than just being like, I just want to hang out with people right now. I'm gonna miss these people when I move, that would have been my Relationship Building strengths, leading the way or I wouldn't say becoming toxic, but just kind of trying to tweak exactly. I said, I really need to get this done. Or how about if I invite some people over for not only moral support, but also that'll be some relationships, and then we will get things done together, many hands make light work, it was a great way to do that. I've also sometimes seen people not know that their top strength is actually a strength or something good about them. So sometimes they are trying to just perform or just really gain validation for it. And so without some proper investment, both timewise and seeing it as a good thing and really having others see it as a good thing. Sometimes it can turn into over functioning as well. Strengths do all have blind spots you mentioned earlier Whoo. But then like you didn't actually put those thank you notes in the mail. That can be an example of an undeveloped strength, as I like to say, because all these have potential, but we also need to realize like what what It is not as helpful in that strength to write. That's where I think some coaching comes in somebody who's really familiar with the strengths and saying, Hey, what do you need right now? Or what is not going well? Or what's something that you'd like to work on?
Andy Brennan:So I can't help but think in metaphor here. So it seems like focus on your strengths. But you know, go to the gym, exercise, but don't skip leg day.
Unknown:I mean, that's accurate, in some ways. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I would say you have legs. And so you don't want to skip working them out. Like, if I don't like my, let's see, if I don't like my relator strength. That's my number 10. I should not neglect to go deep in relationships with people, I also have Woo, it's my number three, my Woo is like more people. I want to meet all the new people. But my relator is like, No, I want depth with just a few. And I would say skipping leg day is like, saying, Oh, I don't like that one. So I'm just not going to develop or invest in it more. Yeah. But really, I have an inner need an ability to do both. And so sometimes even recognizing those sort of competing desires, helps me to feel more normal and healthy and be like, well, sometimes I can pull out to use another metaphor, this tool from my toolbox, because sometimes I need this one. Sometimes I can pull out this one, because sometimes I need this one. Yeah.
Heather Winchell:Yeah. Yeah, you know, I'm reminded that another word Andy, and I find ourselves using a lot is nuance. And, and I love that this assessment and kind of this way of thinking gives some boundaries, right, a river without boundaries as a swamp. So it gives the boundaries to kind of get a handle on things that could be really good and helpful. But it's also got enough nuance and movement, that you're not kind of stuck in only performing in one way. Right? That's helpful. Okay, so I'm really curious. We've all been part of teams, and we understand that people are different. And this resource helps us to recognize the strengths and talents of others, or maybe even helps us acknowledge when we, when maybe they don't have a particular strength or talent. And I think it can be a powerful way to bring unity through understanding, have you seen strengths as a helpful resource in navigating team or even your partners? Yeah,
Unknown:that's, that's such a good question. I have been a part of many teams. And if we're all being honest, there's always that one or two people on the team that you're like, I just don't get them. I don't like them. Like with them, maybe it's not even that we don't like them. It's just, they're not as easy to work with as maybe other people. I, one time had a teammate, who I just didn't understand. And when we took this assessment together and started talking about it, I realized some of the strengths that she does have. And when I started, so for example, one of her top strengths is input. And that job that I had actually required a lot of attention to detail and a lot of moving parts and changes in policies and things. When I remembered what she does have with her strengths, and actually was able to go to her and say, I think there was a policy change two years ago in this, can you remember what that was? She would probably within 30 seconds be able to come up with the answer. That's, that's the beauty of input strength. And I would genuinely say, I'm so grateful. Thank you for sharing that. I was researching this for or could have been researching this for two hours. You just saved me a lot of time. And so that's, I think one way of learning to just really value and appreciate people who are very different than we are. I think it can also apply in fundraising. For example, you might learn that certain people like to be communicated with in certain ways. Some people might prefer a phone call or a text. Some people might prefer a video. I think that we can apply what we learn about the differences of others into into this process as well. So
Heather Winchell:So I know that you have worked in coaching and mentorship and discipleship and a wide range of investment in other people, and that you've specifically coached people in Clifton Strengths. I'm just curious, do you have any examples of kind of watching somebody blossom in those strengths through their process? And could you share any of those with us?
Unknown:Yeah, I'll use that. A really quick example that comes to mind. I had a coworker and I'm always having people do strengths. I did strengths even when I work too. Fuel, just because I think it's so fascinating and also helps us be more productive and positive. And just Yeah, better. But the the coworker that I had loved the assessment so much that she took it home and had her husband do it. Lo and behold, she learned that his top strength was deliberative, and hers was activator. So two seemingly opposite strengths. And she, for years after that thanked me just for that. Marriage help almost for them. Understanding that he needed some time and more information to make a decision. And she was ready to go start press play at all times, no matter what I think really helped their marriage. And so that's, I think, just one example of a way that strengths can be useful in partnerships in marriage, relationships, working relationships, all sorts of different ways. In
Heather Winchell:light of that, and just the variety of relationships this can play out. And I'm curious whether there's any vein of this that operates with kids blossoming strengths or talents and kids or is there like a? Or
Andy Brennan:is it like, when is it too soon? Yeah, have them take this test? Yeah,
Unknown:that's a great question. I'm sure plenty of people listening have kids in their lives. There is a book also called strengths based parenting, it actually comes with two codes. One is the regular Clifton Strengths Assessment. And one is one for kids. Really? Yeah. So I think the kids one, it's called strengths explorer, can be used for kids, I don't know, ages, like eight to 14 or so. And once kids reach about reach about the age of 14, they can take the regular adult assessment. The strengths based parenting book actually talks about strength spotting, even in infants and toddlers. And I just find that so fascinating. Again, the research says that we were born with these talents. So if we were born with talents are probably exhibiting some behaviors or how we are in the world. And what, what better opportunity for parents than to just start noticing and taking a look at how their child naturally functions. I mean, there's that proverb that says, Train up a child in the way he should go. And even when he is old, he will not depart from it. I think there's various meaning and application to that proverb. But I think some of the heart of that proverb actually talks about notice, for all bent of your own child and the way that they naturally are exhibiting gifting and talent to the world, and help cultivate that, so that they can continue to grow in that even if it's maybe, especially if it's different than natural talent that you as parents have.
Andy Brennan:That's a great point. Because as a parent, I think it's natural for us to assume this is my child. He or she will be like me,
Heather Winchell:you assume that? I did. Oh, yeah. Like, Oh, I
Andy Brennan:love basketball. My kids are going to be okay. Great basketball players, or, you know, the things that I like. Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
Heather Winchell:Interesting. I have one final question on strengths before I actually have something totally unrelated. I'd love to ask you because I know you're passionate about it. But just given that the Enneagram is another tool that is popular now and that people are really trying to understand, do you see any kind of overlap with strengths and how they play out with particular Enneagram types? Or would you say you don't really see any kind of meaningful correlation there?
Unknown:Yeah, I would say there's, there's probably a bit of overlap. The Enneagram really deals with core fears, core motivations, kind of what propels us, I think, and Clifton Strengths is more about talents, and how we do what we do. So in a way, they're kind of really different. But I do, I sometimes will spot some overlap in that. So yeah, that's interesting to look at. It's also I think, different the way that they were both established. I know there's, there's a researched back assessment for Clifton Strengths and the Enneagram is kind of a choose the one that that you think best applies to you. But I know people have developed different assessments at the time too. So I think they're with every tool. There's something good that that we can gain through them. I just happen to be a bigger fan of Clifton Strengths
Heather Winchell:myself. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, well, I feel like this has been a really fruitful conversation. Hopefully, our listeners see the value of, of identifying and even cultivating these talents in these strings that they have both are for their ministry, for their just kind of normal life and for They're partners. So at the very end here, I just want to pivot slightly. I know another area within support based work that you are passionate about is the experience of fundraising as a single female. And I'd love to have you share your perspective on what that has been like for you, and how you would encourage our listeners that share that experience.
Unknown:Yeah. I could share a whole story here, I may share a few. A few tidbits. I think we were talking about poverty mindset earlier and what I don't have and what I wish that I had comparison, and that's actually part of what has led me to where I am today, is just with the Lord saying, Okay, so I'm single, I'm a woman, I desire to serve in ministry. I don't, I don't want to dwell in ingratitude, or not be thankful for for the life that God has given me, I want to use it wisely. Kind of like we've been talking about that. Just talent, appreciation and multiplication. What do I have? I have time I have availability. And so I've really taken a long, hard look, these past few years, as I've done this sort of pivot and life shift of what do I have? What am I naturally good at? How would I like to serve the Lord in the world and for His Kingdom and for his purposes, and so realizing just maybe what I do have, being extra time and availability, I think, has helped me just in my approach to, to fundraising, to ministry to be really targeted and say, Okay, God, all that I have is yours. My heart is for relationships, I, if I didn't have to work tomorrow, and I was set financially for the rest of my life, what would I be doing with my time, I'd be getting together with people one on one, that's a perfect reflection of my strengths, the things that I would just naturally enjoy doing, talking about scripture, coaching people asking questions, creating a space, how can I integrate that even into fundraising and who I am and what I do as a woman? I think it's just I want to be more naturally who I already am. And I know for a lot of women, it's our strength really comes in relationship building, the number of relationships and connections that we have, the ways that we communicate what is impactful and meaningful, what's really important in the world. Almost sometimes we're good at you know, nurturing, and just developing people, relationships, ministry, there's so many things that translates so well, to funding and fundraising as well as to ministry. Now, is that the same as like doing a big bold, direct ask to this, like, giant company that has multi-millions? No, it's not. And maybe for some women, that is their strength, and I say go for it. But I think, I think really just as a woman, and as a single woman, there's a sweet opportunity to really trust in God and invite really family took alongside me, and, and invest in the work that God is doing that I have availability to do and, and a heart and passion to do so. For anyone out there that's listening and just overwhelmed by, by funding by support raising, and maybe even not sure that they can go into this life and into this work, I just want to say God has has given you everything that you need. And also he will be giving you even more than what you need and what a sweet opportunity to invite others to partner with you. It can just be so meaningful. I have felt more like I have a family since fundraising and ministry than I ever did when I was just, you know, single and alone and working. And so this is something that I'm very passionate about. And and I want to help people flip the script on this mindset as well. I think oftentimes, in the church, it's there's greater priority on marriage, which has been damaging to many people who are single, and I just want to say Jesus was single Paul was single, they're both very effective for the they relied on and really loved and partnered with a whole variety of people. Like we would not be here, if not for Paul's missionary journeys, if not for Jesus, right. So really passionate about that. I'm really grateful that you asked and I think it all, it all applies to talking.
Heather Winchell:I love your response. Because what I hear you saying is there are some unique obstacles. Maybe Maybe that's a fair word. There's me you Think obstacles, maybe some systematic barriers or things that make it more difficult. But what you choose to focus on is all that your current reality affords you in terms of time. And I don't think you're bypassing, I don't think you're just like, I'm not going to look at that. I'm just going to focus on the positive. I think that you're truly like reframing like, Okay, Lord, how can I see this? And how have How is this a gift? And so I think that's really powerful, really powerful way to model for our listeners. Not bypassing, but recognizing, yep, that's an obstacle. And this is also true. Very good. Well, Andy, you want to close this out with our last question? Yeah,
Andy Brennan:absolutely. Well, first, I'm just wondering as well, Rebecca, you've mentioned so many resources here. Is there anything else you'd like to mention? And I'm wondering also, like, rather than us linking all these books, is there a website that we could point people to that just has all those things on it?
Unknown:Gallup website is great. There's also a list of strengths coaches on the Gallup website. So I think it would be a wise investment if somebody were to reach out and to find a coach to work with and talk through their strengths as well.
Andy Brennan:Awesome. Well, last question, hypothetically, you suddenly have $10,000. And the condition is you have to give it away today, within five seconds to decide who or what would you give it to you?
Unknown:That's such a good question. Here's one more resource after taking the perspective scores, which I love so dearly, I would want to send it to the places that are least reached in the world, whether that's an organization or someone that I know that serving in those places. I hope that that's what I'd actually do. I think that would be worth it. I think there's not enough dollars going into the places that are the hardest to get to. So that would be my heart. So
Andy Brennan:a local a local ministry or indigenous outreach or something in the middle of the 1040 window, maybe. Yeah, awesome. Awesome. Cool.
Heather Winchell:Well, Rebecca, thank you again, so much for your time and for this really thorough overview of strengths and for the resources you recommended.
Andy Brennan:I hope people are encouraged to dive into it. I think it really can be a blessing.
Heather Winchell:Absolutely. Yeah.
Unknown:Thanks for having me.
Andy Brennan:Yes, thank you. It's not about the money is presented by poor Vizio fundraising solutions for Vizio equipped support base workers with flexible training, practical resources, and one on one coaching. Find out more at pre Visio fundraising.com.