28. The Halligans on Facing the Unexpected

When life "throws a curveball," how do we navigate the unexpected challenges that shake the foundation of our plans and partnerships? In this episode, we explore the profound impact of life's unforeseen events on support-based ministry. Join us as we sit down with Seth and Megan Halligan, who share their transformative journey from serving overseas to facing a life-altering family crisis. 

Through their story, we delve into the significance of established communication, the power of a supportive network, and the grace of navigating partnerships amidst personal upheaval. 

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Transcript

Andy Brennan: 0:50

Welcome back to the show everyone. So it's one thing to navigate the everyday expected complexities of support based living, partnership development, understanding your needs, understanding your partner's needs, communicating well cetera. But what about when the unexpected happens? All too often the best laid plans can give way to something very different. When that kind of disruption occurs, it's difficult. Specifically, Today's episode will be focused on disruption that completely changes the plan. An illness diagnosed for yourself or a loved one, an unexpected sudden loss, a catastrophic natural event that quite literally levels your home, and takes away your capacity for ministry. We're thinking of recent earthquakes in Turkey, and the like. So what does it look like to walk through that difficulty not just for yourself or your family, but with a whole team of people looking on with their own questions, expectations, concerns and opinions. Every situation is different. But it can be helpful to learn from others experiences to gain insight, be connected to resources and also to remember that you're not alone. So Heather, would you do us the distinct honor yet again, of introducing our guests?

Heather Winchell: 2:10

I would love to because Andy honestly, this conversation is one I've wanted to have for almost two years since we started this show. So today, we have with us Seth and Meghan Halligan. And they together spent 10 years as support based workers in the overseas context, serving throughout East Asia and eventually stepping into a position of organizational leadership at the country level. Currently, they live on the west coast with their family of four and Seth continues to inspire and cast vision through videography. Seth and Meghan, I will let you share a bit about the journey from the Far East to the western shore.

Unknown: 2:46

Hey, guys. Hey, everyone. Glad to be here.

Heather Winchell: 2:50

We're glad you're here.

Unknown: 2:53

Ben, it's been fun seeing you guys do the podcast thing. Andy, good to see you.

Andy Brennan: 2:57

This is the pinnacle. This is the pinnacle of it so far right here.

Unknown: 3:02

Oh, man, good stuff. Yeah, we I started 2004 For the first time doing support base. And as you all know, support raising is terrifying and kind of a ride unlike any others. And so we I started out as a single person for quite some time. And then after my first leave, I came back with a wife, Megan and her Megan, um, and then we bent went up over yonder in the hills together for a couple years. And then we went to Mongolia to do the leadership thing. And then our lives changed. Yeah, it was. It was a short but amazing ride. We spent a couple years just to in China. And then we were invited set specifically by us as a couple to move to Mongolia and to work with an amazing team of teachers at the time. And we really did start casting vision together with this team with leadership. We were all in we moved across two countries a hand made it there with all of all the stuff we could throw into a suitcase in tow. And moving countries.

Andy Brennan: 4:22

Moving countries isn't a small decision. That's not a minor thing to do. No,

Unknown: 4:27

no, we we did all the steps right. We talked a lot with a lot of people we went and visited to see if we seemed like it was a place we could see ourselves living and made the commitment three to five years minimum to be and to invest and to commit. I remember that conversation like you can give me three years South right and I told the leader I shirt. Oh, and unfortunately three months later things change again, we said do a quick visit. Quick, I'm using air quotes here, folks, for those who can't see us, which is everybody. We're doing a quick visit home to have the birth of our first child. And that was going to be we kind of decided to do that kind of last not last minute, but we were originally going to have her in Mongolia, which is a, which has been a whole different ballgame. Yeah. And so it's really kind of his timing that we that that we ended up going back home to Oregon, and having our daughter in a local hospital here. And from there, things kind of just went sideways. Yeah, I my pregnancy was healthy, we were surrounded by friends and family and loved ones. And our intention was to be in Oregon, or two to two and a half months to Maxine, you support raising, have our first kiddo and then get passports or a passport for her and get back on the road again, and meet up in in Thailand. And so that all changed. I remember thinking, I really hope we don't have to have to have a C section because then that will really slow things down. And then maybe we'd have to take two different flights. And that'd be a bummer complicate things complicate things that'd be that'd be a C section would be the worst. Yeah, we're laughing now. We weren't laughing then did have an emergency C section, as far as we know, unrelated to the problems with our daughter. So Dottie was born. And she was healthy at first and then great. Yeah, she wasn't so healthy. So her health just kind of declined over her first 18 hours. And ultimately, she was diagnosed with a life threatening illness and require transport to our nearest Children's Hospital. So she was she was sent there was Seth and was in surgery right at like 24 hours old. I think it was. Wow. Yeah. And she's doing great right now for those guys a little fast forward here. We can go into the millions and millions of details but she is now six years old. And she is a fiery firecracker here. She's

Andy Brennan: 7:20

spunky.

Unknown: 7:22

Yes, he's, she's, it's her world. We're living in it. It's been amazing cheese, then go to school now for three years and Montessori School. And she's just smart as a whip and really, really does kind of stand her ground and a lot of things. He's taught a lot of her classmates about the tools she has, and just kind of what that looks like. And half the time you don't know because she's not connected. But we do live a life, which prohibits us from traveling. Now we live a life where we know that we have to close to certain certain hospitals that have certain abilities. And overseas is not possible in the way it was before. So we realized quickly, that we're not going back to Mongolia with the whole family. It's not going to happen. So we my mom and I flew out, moved out of our apartment, and we bought a house in my home town. Yes, that's what I've always wanted. come true. Dream come true, you know, move back in with my parents, with my first child. So moved back with my parents change everything. 180 degrees, a leap of faith, switch careers completely, because you know, what's better than two master's degrees starting a wedding videography company? That's what you do. If you education based master's degrees, yeah, that was fine. Just things like that. But in the meantime, it's been an amazing blessing because we have the support this amazing support group. And honestly, all along the way, from our people who were who took our rent in Mongolia, the people who helped us figure out the situations in the city. We were in just amazing things along the way. And so now we are back in one. Yeah, it was it was a big change. I mean, we had our lives, like we said, planned to be overseas, we had raised support and had a whole team of people ready and willing to support us living overseas. And so when that changed, and it changed so fast, and so against our will and against our our desire, that it really was shocking to the system and to to our lives. And so, in those initial moments, people stepped up even before we realized what they were doing and financially just kind of started an extra fund for us to help them with medical expenses that would maybe come up but also travel and where to stay and just food on a daily basis when you're living in the hospital and trying to just figure out what to do Probably next and yeah, like Sal said, ultimately, he did have to fly back and kind of wrap things up. But people were paying our rent people on our team that we had spent so much time casting a vision with, just rally that around us in support before we were there. And when Seth and his mom went back to pack up our apartment and sell all our stuff, or buy our all our stuff, and just take care of all those little details that we truly had no mental or emotional like room to deal with at that time. We, other than sending out a message that was like, initially, like, here's what's going on, and we don't know what the outcomes going to be. And then ultimately, our daughters alive, and we're not coming back. So what we thought was our future and our future with you, is no longer that. So. Yeah, yeah, there was a lot of a lot of loss and a lot of different like realms, I guess you could say, sure.

Andy Brennan: 11:02

Yeah, the floor kind of fell out.

Heather Winchell: 11:06

But it sounds like the people that were around you that had, you know, come to partner with you in this. In this work. It sounds like a lot of them just kind of took action and started proactively caring for you. Is that fair to say? Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So, you know, one of the reasons I wanted to have this conversation is because, you know, when when the unexpected does happen, I think there's probably very little margin to be thinking outside of the very direct things you need to do and caring for your family and you absorbing and working through the loss and, and all of those things. So what do you think? What would you guys attribute that engagement to? Would you say that you had had a lot of communication and real partnership development in the years preceding in that that really enabled your team to be very connected, even when you couldn't be updating a lot? Or would you say in the middle of that you did update a lot? What did that communication look like?

Unknown: 12:06

For me, one of the hardest things about joining Seth going overseas was like the support raising. And it seemed like such a big burden for us, but also on other people. And it took me a lot of like, learning and realizing the purpose of that is not just the financial side of things, but the team of people that are praying for you and your that you're saying communicating with and we did we connected with our supporters, we did newsletters on a regular basis, whenever we would be back in the States, we visited people and we got together, we had dinners, and we did thank yous. And so I don't know, I think we communicated pretty well, we communicate a whole lot better when Megan joined the team, as Andy could be the first time.

Andy Brennan: 12:58

Everything was clear, all of a sudden,

Unknown: 13:00

all of a sudden, like, wow, this is not your assistance was once every three months whether it needs to be or not. Yeah, no, it was it was also things change to his old we are what you could do with just technology. At that point. You couldn't make the phone calls you could back then that you could towards the end there. Yeah, right. You could make those phone calls pretty quick and rally people but then having that that people who out of the woodworks you forget, like, it's not just a name number on the page. This is these are the people who who are invested into your lives. And that was never more evident than when we came back. Yeah. So it was our it was our personal support team, but also people within our community, our larger organization. So going on your own is one thing, even if you've raised the port, but then going with an organization that we met up once a year, and people I would have never met that we would have never connected with that we had only maybe had a dinner with or a friendly conversation with or some type of meeting with. When our organization was all together once a year, those people even were stepping up because the word spread when we were broken and when we were falling apart. People took it upon themselves to like pass the word and so it just seemed like everybody knew what was going on. So even when we couldn't manage to send out more than one message somehow everyone was right there alongside with us. In those moments that were just so hard. It sounds

Andy Brennan: 14:36

like a real picture of the Body of Christ. Exactly what it's supposed to be. Yeah, for sure. And it sounds like you know when if you're fundraising for the first time and you hear everybody talking about winning you build your team guys it's more than just like clever marketing jargon by a fundraising advocates to you know, to get you to see it well like it it really is a critical team.

Unknown: 15:04

How much though? Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

Heather Winchell: 15:06

a team that goes beyond the money, right? It's not about the money. It's, there's so much more in those partnerships. And in that connection, and this

Andy Brennan: 15:14

is good, I think for parents to hear too, if they're like, a little worried about sending their, their kids off into the great unknown, like, they're not going by themselves. They're going, they're going with CO laborers, they're going with people that have their backs. Exactly.

Unknown: 15:29

Yeah. When you share that vision, and you choose to act it out in a way that's just a little different than the typical staying at home, you know, in your, the place you were raised. Yeah, it's nice to have other people that are experiencing that same type of life. Because they get it, they know what that means your change they can, they can imagine themselves having to face a change like that. Okay,

Andy Brennan: 15:58

guys, can you share with us a little bit about your initial fundraising experience? And was it? What was it like for you? And did you experience any dramatic change in partnership? After you got married as a single versus as a married couple?

Unknown: 16:15

Great question. It's hard, because like I was, we're talking about a college here. So it was like a lifetime ago. It was. But that was great. Because it was just people excited for me in this next stage of my life. And back then, like you just couldn't get access. Once you were over there, as you were before. Really exciting stuff, where people who would come out of the woodwork a lot of my parents, friends, a lot of my friends from, from churches I was at, and also just people that you're just surprised who steps on and takes care of you like, even for the reason why I joke with Andy because we've worked together before, and he's got on me about not sending out as many newsletters as other people do. Yeah, on multiple occasions, but it always seemed to like come through in the end. And it was incredible, just to see how that people were with me for a decade, or a decade, and where they're from, like day one and, and just encouraging. At every point in the way. I made this joke about when I moved back to America, I saw some people more. Every summer, I come home every summer, and I see all these people that are supporting me every summer. But now I see them once every five years. Right, right, right. It's the weirdest thing to be almost more connected to people when you're overseas because of that one thing that you guys are both together working together towards a purpose. And it's just, it's it really is like I hate to use, like, you know, the boardroom of the company. But we're working together for this one common goal, and we're all in it together. And so that's been amazing to see that throughout the years. And then when Megan came along, things seem to be like, more clear. For some reason. I don't know what it was. I can't put my finger on it. But it seems like the communication from my side seemed to be more clear to my my team. It was very weird. I don't know, I don't know why that was ya know why that could be Megan, I don't know, I'm a little more organized in some area. And that a lot of the people that had been supporting Seth continued to support him. But there was a shift in that it was a lot of family and a lot of friends, people who really didn't know us personally. So I would say there was less people, most of the people on the list, you know, that we were sending newsletters to or contacting Seth could say like, oh, that's a family member. That's great. That's like my parents, you know, long term good friends that I grew up knowing or Yeah, things like that. So there was a level of connection very locally to for the most part. Yeah, local churches, better connections to we had to can we both came from different churches. And so it seemed like we were more connected to both churches after that. Yeah. Yeah,

Andy Brennan: 19:02

people don't, don't consider like as you get out of college. And as you kind of get into a career, it's easy to drift away from all those relationships and kind of just focus on the people that are in your immediate circle. Versus if your fundraising like you're forced to stay engaged with all those very good.

Unknown: 19:18

Yeah, I mean, six, six and a half years out. Sadly, there are probably a lot of people we aren't as well connected to that we aren't seeing anymore now that we're like, fully back in the American life and yeah, that independence that you feel pushed into, to like provide for yourself and provide for your family on your own. So you do you lose a lot of that connection to a bigger community. On that point. I do. I do check Facebook every once in a while. And it's amazing how many of my team from yonder year will still make comments on our family and see and that's been Have an encouraging thing here there. It's like everyone's like, Oh, my goodness, I haven't talked to them for five years. And I need to update my list. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, it's been having these conversations. It's fun to relive how much we were just encouraged helped financially supported by so many different people along the way to get to where we were, and then to even have the transition we did. I mean, all things considered in America today like to have a job and a house and be financially Okay. In a sense that we can do this, we would never would have been possible without the team that helped us transition. Yeah. Yeah. And so that has been just to get you on your feet, like, what would not have been possible? Yeah. would not have been possible without the people around us? For sure.

Heather Winchell: 20:47

Yeah. So I know, we already spoke to what communication looks like kind of before that disrupted season that you guys moved into. I'm curious, though, what, what did communication look like during that season? I mean, I remember that you guys would like you kind of referenced earlier, you would provide information, give updates for those that were praying for daddy and for your family? I feel like I remember that being in a couple of different mediums. Maybe it was only email, but I know I remember some videos too. So yeah, that's

Unknown: 21:17

yeah, one of the first things we did was a video, it was actually for whatever reason, seemed that easiest at that time. Because everything's just so fresh and raw, in that moment. And so sitting down and explaining kind of where we were at, you know, sitting in the Ronald McDonald House making a video about our daughter up, you know, up the hill, fighting for her life. Like, it's so real. And it just made sense to do it in a video that was safe and appropriate to, to send out to our team because it felt more personal than a newsletter or email, right,

Andy Brennan: 21:59

but it doesn't give your tone of voice your facial expressions or your like the sincerity. It's hard to convey that in text. Yeah, exactly.

Unknown: 22:06

Yeah, harder for some of us more than others. For sure. I always joke I do video because I'm such a terrible writer. And I started doing video, just little video editing while I was overseas, a little stories about when I was living on like the mountaintop area. Yeah, and then start trying to do some video stuff for my teachers our underneath me that we just to see what the end of life the teacher be what it's like to live in Mongolia in the winter. And so then, like, as always starting that that path, and we shot that video of kind of the updates. And that's been kind of why we kept shooting Yeah, of shooting videos about what's the next thing is for all of us, like, we had no information about this. When we first got started with it six years ago, we knew nothing about condition, medical stuff. And so these medical situations, I just didn't know maybe I was our data as a central line. So I didn't know much about central lines. And so now there's like communities that we're part of. There's Facebook communities, there's email communities, there's conferences we go to every year, but we had no idea about any of that. So I was like, I'm making video. So someone else can least find this. And like, Hey, this is what we've done. And this is why. And so we still do that. Now, it's kind of a joke to family video channel. But we had a whole YouTube channel that was just like stuff. We're learning about this sort of thing. Yeah. And you could find that horrible video of our first announcement on there as well. We also, I would write I did write updates. Oh, yes. You updates. As you can write I Cambridge. When you do your bridge? Yeah. And so we would we were sharing that way as well. Because over time, yeah, you get busy. And when you have a moment or two writing did that that's that season for a while, especially when things are changing. So so much like your life and her status and our lives changed a lot really frequently in the first year and a half. And I probably stopped a year and a half to two years in with those written updates. Just just because life gets busier, you have another kid and you're like, wow, fairly time to sleep, let alone.

Heather Winchell: 24:17

Right, yeah. So something that we really encourage people towards as they're building this team, this partnership team around them as they're preparing to go. And even within the context of their ministry, we encourage people to have a core team, like certain individuals that are part of their greater team that are kind of committed at a level where they'll step up in situations like this or in the skills and giftings that they have to serve and support in unique ways. I'm curious if you guys had anyone around you that that helped you in that capacity that that was kind of doing things on your behalf that was trying to kind of I don't know be between you and maybe the expectations that others had on what you were saying or providing

Andy Brennan: 25:01

your inner circle. Yeah, man.

Unknown: 25:03

So I started before, I think I made that official circle. But we had, we had several people who were kind of, at least on my side, we had our two main passers, Jones and Sean who are kind of like the big like, they support us different levels, by church really stepped up financially there. And they also were kind of like, the disseminator of information sometimes as well, so they could keep people on that we also had, of course, my mom and my dad were the were the big ones on my side, and then of a couple of buddies who stepped up, I don't know where to they they weren't officially, but they ended up being huge steps for us setting things up like that, and and everything else. But like, I'd say, our two pastors, my parents, and, and a couple buddies, I gotta give credit to sets family and like you said, our pastors, because we could really give an update. If all we could manage was one person, we could give it to Seth's mom and everyone everyone actually would find. Everyone Yeah, you know, typically most of the time, there are several groups going or I would, I would text out, you know, to like three or four different groups just because you have all these like diverse groups of people, different family groups, and whatever. But in those really tough those tougher moments it if you could only get out one message to one person, it was either a pastor's wife, or, or SAS mom. So they then they could spread it and then the news would get out. So

Andy Brennan: 26:44

it seemed like because you had this group of people around you, it's almost like they were primed to just jump in and get to work. Yeah. I mean, I mean, not the other, the church wouldn't have come around you if you guys weren't on support, but they were like already in third gear. Right. And they just kicked it into fifth.

Unknown: 27:06

Yeah, I we Megan and I were both really connected with our churches too. So we were kind of like she was the secretary, her church, and I was the worship leader at mine. And there was a lot of investment from both churches. So there's already kind of that buy in for what we were doing. Yeah. It both kind of upset were leaving. Well, her church was my church was stoked as leaving. But there was definitely like, a lot, a lot of buy into what we were doing. And it did. We're different denominations. So a lot of things like buying on both ends, like we're all the church is kind of really cool. So it felt like it felt very unifying for are kind of the two big churches in town at that time. So yeah, yeah, it was, the support was already there. As you said, they were like, primed in knowing where we were and what we were doing. And they were always kind of listening in anticipating updates. And so in that next moment, and that different kind of step that people that were able to step up, and the N SS said some of the unexpected people were just like, hey, like, we've got your back here. We, we were right here with you.

Andy Brennan: 28:13

Awesome. So as some of our listeners can confirm, on this show, we're big proponents of this idea that it's not about the money, right? That's the name of the show, and that fundraising, and support base work is really formative. So I'm wondering, can you identify any ways that support bass living has formed you, and maybe even specific ways the Lord might have used that information to prepare you?

Unknown: 28:43

Well, the first thing I think of is you can't do this alone. And it doesn't matter what you're doing. You just can't do things alone. Yeah, and support raising is a very interesting thing. Because it's really, it's not different than getting the support you need for so many different aspects of life, whether it be a job, or whether it be like somebody who's your mentor, but it's, it's just, instead of going to a company or getting through some other source, you're going out and say, Hey, this is what I believe God's calling me to do. And, and then you're building your, your, your, your company, your group, whatever you want to whatever that feeling is yourself. And so that's but that's what's true for everything like I couldn't I think about my most recent company, that videography without the people along the way to help me out. There's no way I could have been doing what I'm doing now. And so and I don't want to like take the fact that this is like God leading but it's still you're having a team of people help you get to where you are and even now like I'm you're always better when you're working with a team and you're always better when you have support around you and no woman or man is an island doing it themselves. Like I built my own bootstraps. That's that's the biggest lie like we're No, you, you need that team to be to be part of the family be part of the body. There's no single body part that's going to do at all, if you want, or more of that how Jesus called us to live. And so we're called to be in community, even though you're sending us off into the middle of, you know, Mongolia,

Andy Brennan: 30:18

Outer Mongolia, literally.

Unknown: 30:21

Yeah, yeah, I was connected to my church before I married that and thought I had a pretty good sense of community. But support raising really shifted my viewpoint of that of reaching out and coming to understand that it truly wasn't about the money that it truly was about the people that were cheering you on and praying for you, and keeping you updated about their lives or sending you know, a letter to get a letter overseas or a package or something and just really maintain that connection. I feel like it did prepare us for a time in our lives where we truly had no control and had nothing, we had no home, we had no livelihood, we had nothing back in the States. And we had to lean on other people for everything. Like you want to go from one place to another, you need a car, you need a ride you you know want to eat, not in the hospital, cafeteria or set needs to eat, you need money from someone, we had no job, we were not bringing in our own money. So every dollar we spent was from another person, every ride we took was from another person, every encouraging word, every uplift, every waiting room visit was just constantly other people coming and saying we are here for you, you can lean on us, we see you and we know that you're hurting. And sometimes people will just sit with us, just we would have a waiting room full of people and no one would be saying anything. Because there's just nothing to be said. But you know that they're there. And you know that if you needed to talk to them, or get a hug or whatever, they're right there with you. And it's not that I wouldn't have had that before going overseas, but it would not have been as diverse or as beautiful. I think without that support, raising experience and the shift in my own mind and heart about what does that mean, to be the body of Christ and to work together and be together?

Andy Brennan: 32:34

When you mentioned that that bootstraps mentality says like this sort of flies in the face of this American value of autonomy, and just getting it done by yourself? But there's just such a better design? And you're doing it together? Yeah. And

Unknown: 32:50

historically, like, all those did, by themselves, no one did it by themselves. There's always somebody, right? That's kind of a fallacy, right? That's the joke, right? Like, every, every artist had some person that gave them money to be an artist. So they could you know, be an artist instead of working on bricks or whatever it was. Yeah. Every every businessman had to get a loan or have someone invest in their company. Yeah, it's all

Andy Brennan: 33:11

Shark Tank.

Unknown: 33:12

It's all right. Every, every single thing you need people to buy in. And so it's Yeah, I don't. It's funny. I see it. I don't see any different than invest in a company. Now. That's I don't see like how people can say it's any different was like, Oh, you gotta go get the money. Like, yeah, but you gotta get your money for everything. It kind of prepares you for everything. So yeah, it's a vision you believe in. You gotta get people on board. Yeah.

Andy Brennan: 33:40

Okay, so what did you I'm curious. What did you find most helpful by way of holistic support as you were navigating the season? And I guess specifically, how would you encourage listeners that are in a supportive role for those who are also walking through something unexpected?

Unknown: 33:59

I mean, there's the the lots of coffee gift cards. A big chunk of change, there was like this one fun that people got together out of everywhere, we had this big chunk of change to pay for a lot of the things like moving back, that was insane. So that was great to kind of get us on our feet from there. And then just giving us so much encouragement, like I think words of encouragement were a huge factor for us and they allow you to move in and people stepped up to fill up positions in ways that we never thought people we knew they were willing anymore so that was very encouraging to know what we were doing before was kind of filled so those ingests and kind of seriousness. Three big things. Yeah, I would say as a supporter to give support without expecting anything in return. Like we I did not have the emotional capacity to respond to every text message or every letter, or every gift card or every Every anything Yeah. And so for people to give whatever, whether it was words or an actual gift of some sorts, or just stopping by and saying, Hey, we're here for you, or here's a CD or a book or an old magazine, you know, to kill time for those listeners, a CD is like an mp3, but it's actually on a physical.

Andy Brennan: 35:23

It's a shiny disk.

Unknown: 35:24

It's like a record, but smaller. Yeah, those Taylor Swift album, Dubai, but they're small, right? Yeah. What was it no expectation of anything in return. So later down the road, when we could think clearly, and we could emotionally reach out and connect with people, there was no animosity, there was nothing like all I, I sent you that card, and you never responded, you know, like, I'm out. Like, there was none of that it was just just love and support. So on the support tour side of things, I would say, give what you can, whether it's a note or a text, or words of encouragement and affirmation, through a friend or relative. And just wait it out with them. For however long it takes before they can reach out and connect with you in return at a later date. Because it might take a while, depending on the situation, it could take a really long time before those people in that situation, can wrap their heads around the world, this new world and their new life enough to to give anything back to anyone because they're just trying to survive. Yeah. I was on a roll, isn't it? That was kind of fun. A lot of people just come visit us. That's cool. And even though like I was at first is like, oh, sometimes there's that fear. I don't visit because it's, you know, too stressful. But I think I think in this day and age, it's good to say no, it was really nice to see people, friends from China, some friends from Mongolia. Whenever they're in our neck of the woods, so to speak, they come by and say hey, and it was at various times, whether it be three months later, four months later, a year later. And even those who could be at the hospital, because it was nice to see people at the hospital, even if we could only say hi for a couple of minutes and then go back into the ER go back into the NICU. So yeah, it was nice to have people come physically and say hello, and bring chocolate.

Heather Winchell: 37:25

Yeah, I was gonna say in coffee.

Unknown: 37:27

Yeah. And not being afraid to reach out to a person you might not know really well. That's true, too. Like, I didn't always know well, the people that were coming, if they were connected to us through our organization, like people that were already back in the States, but there were quite a few that did come and and offer their time to support us. And, and it was maybe weird at first. But ultimately it was it was great. Because you're just you're meeting more people and knowing that there's so like, your world is just so much bigger than you think sometimes. And yeah, it's beautiful when you can say you have that which we do have. So

Heather Winchell: 38:08

I guess I'm curious if there was anything that was not helpful or anything that you would encourage others in that position to be aware of like any, any spaces where you feel like there were helpful but loving boundaries that needed to be put

Unknown: 38:20

forward. Because as Donnie got better, I personally always felt. I mean, we were we just finished saying how great it was to have people come and visit. I always felt like I needed to take people in to see daddy because she could take guests in, see her or visit her. But at the time I was also very selfish about the time that I had with her that like her grandparents had with her or the like the family that was close. So there were definitely for me personally moments where the visiting was great, but I kind of wished it came with like an I have no expectation of seeing your sick daughter in her NICU room. I just came to like, sit and be with you. So like the people that would take us out to eat, they didn't even come into the hospital, it was just like, like, you need a break whether you think you need a break or not come out with us. I appreciated that more than when I felt like there was this sense of need to take people to say my sick child, you know, it makes sense. So just finding that balance and like navigating that but everybody's gonna be different. I'm I wouldn't say that Seth felt that same feeling that I was feeling. You

Heather Winchell: 39:46

know, in listening to you guys. I'm just like really? So encouraged that it seems like your experience afforded a lot of generosity of heart. A lot of genuine care for you. A lot of freedom from entitlement or expectation. on your part, and I think that is really beautiful. I'm wondering if there are, you know, any, if any of our listeners find themselves in a situation where they either acknowledge, like, Hey, I'm in a really difficult season, and I feel kind of entitled for what it should look like for people to be caring for me, or I find that my, that people in my support team seem to have expectations of me that I just can't seem to meet. And I, I think, sadly, that does sometimes happen on one side or the other. I understand that that does not feel like the experience you guys have. But I'm wondering if you would have a guess any encouragement or any values you would put forward for that person.

Unknown: 40:46

You don't know how you're going to feel about certain things that happen to you, you don't know when you're going to break down, you don't know when you're going to be strong, you just don't know. You can't have any expectation upon yourself at all. And that's, that'd be my first encouragement, because that's something you can control. You can't control their expectations. That's, that's on them, frankly. And to have that kind of clear delineation, you can communicate about that in the future. But you cannot control people's expectations of view. But I would encourage people when they're about to get through the hardest thing in their life, like, don't be mad at yourself for the way you feel like, can't you can't live there. If you feel heartbroken, feel heartbroken and feel hurt. I was fine. I remember I didn't break down until I saw my younger brother. And then I lost it. I was fine for the first 48 hours and then yeah. And so yeah, you just used to can't, you can't hold it together. You don't need to hold it together. You don't need to have those expectations. Like I would say also, it's it's everywhere, always no matter where you are. So even if you're stateside, or whatever your home country is living, what would have been the more typical life, there's still going to be moments where you feel like, I'm in a rough place, and people should be taking care of me better. Or, you know, why? Why did that person have it better than I had it? And I think those are the same feelings that we feel when we're support raising, like, oh, so and so support is like always up and they never have to talk. And it's like, Who are these amazing people supporting them, whereas I'm struggling month by month, and every newsletter and every time I go home, it's just like, you know, scraping together bits, you know, pennies it feels like, but the reality is, there's those differences, wherever you are totally life, I would agree with Seth that don't be so hard on yourself. And find even if it's just a couple people that you can be like honest with and talk through those feelings with and ask them really specifically like, I'm struggling with this. Can you write it with me? Can you talk with me? Can you you know, just be a sounding board for me during you know, those difficult thoughts. And don't give up. Don't give up asking people for support no matter how many times people say no, or I can't do that. And be bold, and make new friends out of strangers and and do what you can if you're, if you're feeling like you're supposed to be wherever you are, then God's gonna provide a way to keep you there. And sometimes when you feel like you're where you're supposed to be God takes you out of that place and puts you somewhere else. And you didn't expect it or want it necessarily. But ultimately, eventually, what are you talking about? is great. I love Monmouth Oregon. Super awesome. No, that's the I agree. I'll never say that. Because God has planned to be honest. So I never plan to go live in Asia for 10 years. By the way, that was never my plan, right? I always joked at first the 10 year 10/10 year of my two year commitments, right? Organizations. So yeah, like I never was gonna like the places I've been are cooler than the place I thought I'd live. Like, that's kind of how it is. And if they're not going to do a job I never thought I'd be able to do and that's been kind of fun. Yeah. It's a it's a very weird, very weird life. We've lived so far. And it's kind of fun. So

Andy Brennan: 44:28

what I hear you saying is that it doesn't matter where you live where you end up? Hard Things happen. Right, and it's not great. It's not a litmus test for Oh, yeah. Are we in God's will or not?

Unknown: 44:43

No, absolutely. Oh, no way. It's yeah, that's you can't play that game. It's really this is what's going to happen and you're not in or out of God's will. It's just whatever decision you're making. Next. You're not You're not doing this thing or it's like, oh, the golden path. They're gonna do in reference to that In the mind, but that's not how it works. Like I didn't, I didn't, I didn't plan on my life to go, you know, I'm gonna go get my master's degree by this age, I'm gonna live in these different countries know that hey that and and I've been able to see things and experience God in different cultures and people and even different ways in my hometown I never expected. And that's been that's been God showing me things and doing things in my life that I had no business doing. And that's amazing. I'll take that any day over a well laid five year plan. Yeah.

Andy Brennan: 45:36

Awesome. Well, guys, this has been great. It's been super encouraging. So as we wrap up, I'm just wondering, like, by way of encouragement, is there anything else you guys would want to say to our kind of more general audiences as they persevere in support based ministry?

Unknown: 45:54

I think it's worth it. I think having a community of support. When you're going out, especially to a place you're unfamiliar, in the situation that's most likely new and different for you. It's worth the awkward conversations and stepping outside of your own maybe personal comfort zone to have a very well rounded group of supporters to go alongside. And in the moments, I thought that Oh, wouldn't it be nice if we had one person who just paid all of the money? If that had been the case? Yeah. When we needed, you know, city to support us and lift us up, we would have had one person and that would have been a lot harder for them. And it would have looked a lot different for us. So it's worth it. It's worth the struggle. Yeah. Yeah. My only advice is that if you believe it, they'll believe it. If you're really passionate about what you're doing, and people want to be parts of causes. People want to be part of vision, people are excited to be jumped in to something that means more that can bring life and if you believe it, they will believe it. And that's it. Like everyone's casting vision. Yeah, now it's your turn. Yeah,

Andy Brennan: 47:14

man.

Heather Winchell: 47:15

And that is so true. Because I know I've said this a few times. But seriously, some of the vision you guys cast for? Why this people why, you know, ministry here, like I literally still repeat some of that, to this day to people that are headed there. So yeah, yeah, it's very, your vision becomes their vision. It's very cool. Awesome. Well, are there any, I guess resources that you would recommend to our listeners? I guess I'm thinking, Are there any books or podcasts or organizations or anything that, you know, in your season, were helpful to you, as you navigate it? Proceed

Andy Brennan: 47:52

in addition to your own podcast? Yeah,

Unknown: 47:55

I don't know if I should record, I should do that one on here. So it's hard for us a lot of things I just a shout out for people who have you do have a high medical kid, and they have two feeds. The only conference is incredible. It's resources, people getting people connected, to help figure out what's it like to live with a central line and G Tube like that has been a life thing for us. And also, there's a couple Facebook groups you can check out to for that, as well as the reality is now with social media, you can connect with people all over the world for whatever the issue is, so So search out whatever your need is, and find people that are in a similar situation. And for me, when we started, I read the book that our organization gave about fundraising. Now, but I so I would say if you're going with a group, and they've given you resources, you use them because it has the potential to change your perspective, you might be thinking one thing and be hesitant or excited because of those thoughts. And then if you can align yourself more with your organization's standpoint and their beliefs and views that will just help kind of guide you, I think through that process, so So use those resources. Don't just leave on leave on the wayside.

Heather Winchell: 49:19

For sure. Awesome. Okay, guys. Well, we have one question we ask all of our guests and we would love to ask it of you. So you have$10,000 that you have to give away today, you have five seconds to decide who or what do you give it to and why?

Unknown: 49:34

I have straight two options. One is our local children's hospital. And I would want to spend as much money on toys, kids in the hospital because when Daddy goes in and she's there for a night or for a week, those are always a blessing and they're they go home with the kids which is great, but that means that there's always a need for something more Because kids are sick in all different ways, and those choice can't always be shared. And the second thing for me, I work with moms group in town, and I would love to support more moms, within my own community that can get education and support and friendship and care. And so those are, those are the two things I'm passionate about these days. I know a local person who's had an overseas and give give them part of that. And then GGS Playhouse is another one. That's a big one. Which is for people with Down syndrome, kind of providing resources and accessibility in ways that hasn't been except, and they're starting to go more and more places in the United States. So that's another one. Yeah, so we think incredibly nice. Yeah, we have a son, our son is born. He has Down syndrome. And so we love this idea of Jews play how

Heather Winchell: 50:51

they're great. Very cool. Awesome. Hey, cool. Well, thank you so much for coming on and speaking with us about your story and sharing with our listeners.