It's Not About the Money: In Search of Grounded Fundraising

32. Callie Davis on Spiritually Healthy Fundraising

• Heather Winchell and Andy Brennan • Season 3 • Episode 32

Share episode

In this episode, Heather and Andy are joined by Callie Davis from the Via Generosity team to delve into the crucial aspect of spiritual health in support-based ministry. Callie shares her journey from growing up in a support-raising family to her current role in creating resources for partnership development. The discussion highlights the importance of gratitude, community, and God-centered focus in the fundraising process.

From recognizing early warning signs of slipping spiritual health to practical disciplines for maintaining it, this episode offers a wealth of insights. Callie emphasizes the significance of seeing God's work in the mundane and the power of community in overcoming the isolating nature of support raising. Whether you're new to fundraising or a seasoned veteran, this conversation is packed with encouragement and practical advice to help you thrive in your ministry.

Via Generosity
Support Raising Solutions
The Spirituality of Fundraising" by Henri Nouwen
God's Presence in 40 Devotionals" by Scott Morton
Every Moment Holy" by Douglas Kaine McKelvey

It would be so helpful if you would take a moment to rate and review the show - thanks in advance!

Have an idea for a guest or topic? WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU!

Contact us!
on Instagram @ its.not.about.the.money.pod

THANKS FOR LISTENING!

>> Callie Davis:

I think it's a strange thing that I don't think we would ever wish the difficulties, the challenges, the times in ministry that we are barely hanging on. We wouldn't wish that for ourself or for anyone. But there's also this sweetness of every day, that desperate dependence on God. And I remember when I started on the field in ministry that was just so tangible. And when I moved back to the US, I'm like, I'm not gonna miss that situation. But also, I know with that, I'm also giving up that, like, every day, needing God to make it to the end of the day.

>> Heather:

Welcome to it's not about the money, a podcast in search of grounded fundraising. I'm Heather and together with my co host Andy, we. We look beyond the quick tips and formulas. Join us as we explore the nuance and complexity of ministry fundraising. If you want to thrive in partner development, not just survive it, this is the place for you. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of it's not about the money. So here on this podcast, it is no secret that we believe there is far more to fundraising than simply finding partners and meeting your budget goals. It is a season and a reality that is deeply formative and leads the fundraiser towards greater dependence on God, greater rest in his provision, and greater joy in the process. This mindset does not form by accident, though. It's the result of curating and investing in spiritual health. So many of our listeners may have heard of support raising solutions. Now, via, the heart of the Via generosity team is that people would be mission driven, fully funded, and spiritually healthy. We have asked Callie Davis of the Via generosity team to join us today to speak into that third value of spiritual health.

>> Callie Davis:

Thank you guys so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

>> Heather:

Yeah, us too, Andy. Tell us more about Callie.

>> Andy:

Yeah. So, Kelly Davis is the resource designer and operations manager for the generosity team at Via, and she's been in ministry since 2012 and leading in the ministry partner development world since 2015. She joined the generosity team in June 2019 and currently writes and develops new training tools, helps lead trainings, and works to connect individuals and organizations with the help and tools they need to be spiritually healthy, vision driven, and fully funded. Most of what Cali does daily is focused on creating and developing resources around partnership development with the vision that money shouldn't be a barrier to the gospel moving forward. That was a lot. So, Kelly, would you mind just sharing with us first how you entered into support based ministry and what that experience was like for you.

>> Callie Davis:

Yeah. Oh, that takes me back. every year it gets a little bit further in the past, and I'm amazed at where God has brought me because I was a person that wasn't, ah, super interested in going into ministry, and yet this has been my career. M my parents second career, so they first had a full career in the military and were deeply impacted by crew. Used to be called campus crusade, and they retired and joined family life, which is a subset of crew. And so I was about ten when they raised support.

>> Andy:

Okay.

>> Callie Davis:

So I saw them live that out. I went to all the families, all the churches, we hosted all the dinners. was very much not necessarily a student, but felt, at least at that age, a little bit more like a victim of support. Racing.

>> Andy:

It's the family business.

>> Callie Davis:

Yes, a little bit.

>> Andy:

Yeah.

>> Callie Davis:

But I will say my parents did it really well, as in they became fully funded and then had two decades in ministry. That I grew up in a family based on support in a really healthy way. M and I think that's really special, and that has deeply impacted me. So when I graduated college and just through a series of unexpected doors got opened, I suddenly was looking into ministry, and they told me, oh, but you'll have to raise support. My response, I don't know how much I shocked them when I said, oh, that's fine.

>> Andy:

probably a lot.

>> Callie Davis:

Yeah. Yeah. But I think I had that childhood experience if I lived the fact that God provides.

>> Andy:

Yeah.

>> Callie Davis:

And it wasn't that we lived out of a missionary barrel. It wasn't that I was the poor kid in the class that, like, couldn't have Christmas. I felt like a normal kid, that my parents made wise financial decisions. Like, we. We lived as good stewards. But I felt like life was, like, normal and good and thriving in something that I wanted. And so the idea that I would step into a role that that was a part of just seemed that, well, God, this is what God does, so why would that be a problem?

>> Heather:

Yeah, I m love that it. Yeah. It felt more like an invitation than it did an obstacle, which is so wonderful.

>> Callie Davis:

Yes.

>> Andy:

And I should feel.

>> Heather:

Yeah.

>> Callie Davis:

And to realize how rare that was.

>> Heather:

Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious. So we are in Fort Collins. That's where our studio is. And I know that for many years, crew came to Fort Collins. I'm curious if you've been here.

>> Callie Davis:

Oh, many times.

>> Heather:

Nice. Can you recall any favorite places, like food or hikes or anything like that?

>> Callie Davis:

Oh, well, there is a favorite shop, and don't ask me the name. Of it. But, it's, like, got, art and plants and decorations. It's a place my mom and I would always go to, and both of us have art from that little shop in our house.

>> Heather:

Oh, cool.

>> Callie Davis:

It was just. I don't know if it was local artists, but definitely more unique pieces were there, and it was kind of funky and kind of fun.

>> Andy:

Sounds like the perennial gardener.

>> Heather:

Yeah, it could be. Oh, is it?

>> Callie Davis:

Oh, my word. Yes.

>> Heather:

Cool.

>> Andy:

Oh, they are not funding this episode at all.

>> Heather:

Nope. But maybe they should. Just kidding.

>> Callie Davis:

Yeah.

>> Heather:

Very cool. Very cool.

>> Andy:

We didn't mention that Kelly is coming to us from Arkansas.

>> Heather:

Yep.

>> Andy:

Yeah.

>> Callie Davis:

The beautiful south.

>> Heather:

The beautiful south. it is beautiful. All right. Well, as we kick off this conversation, you know, I am curious because we are wanting to dive into talking about spiritual health. I think it might be helpful to just define that term. I can imagine there's a lot of nuance, but also some clear identifiers we could put down for spiritual health. What would you say, Callie?

>> Callie Davis:

Yeah, I think my personal definition would be, you look at three areas of your life, and it's how are you pursuing God? How do you see God responding back to you and the community of the church around you?

>> Heather:

M

>> Callie Davis:

And I think maybe the nuance or the subtlety is it doesn't necessarily mean there's a lot in each of those buckets, because I know we go through seasons of feeling very distant from God. We might not feel like we're receiving a lot from him, even though he's in us and alive and acting. We might be in a season that we have very little capacity to be. What we would consider our checklist of am I having time with God? In a small group mentoring, going to church, that list may be really limited. So I think it's often not so much the bullet points we can put in each of those three categories, but maybe the quality or even just what others can see is also happening in us. That is evident of spiritual health.

>> Heather:

Cool. Yeah, I think that's well said.

>> Andy:

So, to summarize, like, how are you pursuing it? How is God responding? And then how are we experiencing community?

>> Callie Davis:

Yes.

>> Andy:

Awesome.

>> Heather:

Awesome.

>> Andy:

Okay, so I think it's probably natural and maybe a little bit ironic that the important areas of our lives need more attention than we give them. And for us to remain ignorant of the attention that they need. So I'm thinking of physical health, of family relationships, etcetera. You don't just jump directly from healthy to unhealthy or vice versa. There's typically a progression or markers, indicators that something isn't right. What are some early warning signs that maybe our spiritual health is slipping?

>> Callie Davis:

Yeah. No, it is. It is always a process. I think one of the earliest signs, and one of the easiest things to be intentional about trying to. I don't know if change is the right word. but be intentional to grow is gratitude. I think gratitude is a great. A great measure of where a perspective is, of where we're seeing God, where we're seeing others in their involvement in our life, where we're seeing our impact. And the more that we start seeing and expressing just the scarcity or the lack or the limit, that's going to be evident of that perspective shift, of kind of, where is God? What is God doing? How is he using us? There's really easy steps to say, okay, but today, what can I be thankful for? What can I see is happening that is good? And that is such a small way that has actually amazing brain impacts. It can rewire your brain, which is fascinating. It's a tool. It's a great kind of indicator of where our perspective is. And I think it's when our perspective leaves God that our spiritual health starts to suffer.

>> Heather:

Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking of just the invitation and call to rejoice in the Lord always. And understanding that even in the midst of really difficult things, where it might feel easier to tend towards fear or anxiety or discouragement, that it can just be such a powerful tempering to those things to return to gratitude, to rejoicing always, despite the things that might be pushing you away from perspective on God. So I really love that.

>> Andy:

And I think we talk about this often, but the idea that fundraising really ultimately isn't about us.

>> Heather:

Yeah.

>> Andy:

Right. So that kind of speaks to, like, as soon as our focus shifts from the Lord and the reason why we're doing this, then it can be really kind of a spiraling process. M. I think also, like praise, too. I think we. Gratitude and praise, maybe the two sides of the same sword or something, but we can go on the offense, I think, by praising, it really is a powerful weapon against some of the lies that the enemy is telling us a lot of times.

>> Heather:

Yeah, absolutely. So, Callie, in your experience, I'm wondering if individuals are typically their own best judge on whether or not they are operating in spiritual health? You know, is this the type of conversation that's best had in community? And how does via specifically work with people towards discerning their own spiritual health?

>> Callie Davis:

Yeah, I think to answer the first half of your question, it might be easy for a person to know that something's off, but to really know what's off can be very difficult. And that's where we're made to live in community. We're made to not walk this walk towards God alone. Thank goodness. But going back to kind of my definition of spiritual health, it's hard to know if I'm not hearing from God, if I'm not feeling God's nearness, how do I know if that's me or if it's just this season that God had me walking through? And so that's where, having some outside input is so, so beneficial. Because we only have a very limited perspective. As much as we work to make sure we're seeing outside of ourselves and trying to develop God's sight, we're still pretty limited humans.

>> Heather:

Yep.

>> Callie Davis:

So, I do think it is something we, we can never have the full picture by ourselves. And then as far as kind of the via tools, it's something that we incorporate into everything. So I don't even think we have any one standalone resource because it feels like it's the undergirding for everything. Because if you don't have spiritual health, you're not going to evangelize well, you're not going to disciple well, you're not going to coach someone in their support raising and partnership development well. You're not going to be able to invite someone to partner well. So it is something that is so integral to, I think, every aspect of ministry. If it's not spiritual health isn't a piece that is integrated into your resource, I don't think it's going to go very far.

>> Heather:

Yeah.

>> Andy:

Yeah. It's so good you have that question, am I the reason that God feels distant? That's such a hard thing to suss out on your own.

>> Callie Davis:

Yeah.

>> Andy:

Because that could be something. Again, I'm circling back, but that could be something the enemy is telling you. Like this is, oh, God, is this. And that's because of you did this and this and this and this and this. So I can definitely see the strength of having a third voice.

>> Heather:

Yeah.

>> Andy:

Yeah. Bring some truth to bear. I'm also thinking back to a conversation I've had with Patty, who's been on the show a couple times for your sake, Kelly. It seems like a point that she's driven home many times and I've sat under her training in the past, but just the importance of being so connected to the vine, not only when you're fundraising, but definitely as you're transitioning to the field. Like you're in a season of stress and the pressure cooker. And to think that, because you're walking forward in obedience, because you're doing God's will, suddenly things are gonna get.

>> Heather:

Better or they'll just fall into place.

>> Andy:

They'll fall into place. Yeah. But a lot of times that's not the case.

>> Heather:

Yeah.

>> Andy:

Other things start to come up. So it's just so important, I think, to just be in the word and connected to it. And that's where you get truth from.

>> Heather:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And prayer, I mean, yes, the word in prayer, just being like so quick to talk to the Lord about whatever it is, you know, it kind of.

>> Andy:

Is a gift, because I feel like when you're in those precious situations, you realize how much you need that and that you're not just doing it out of obligation or like, I gotta check a list of disciplines. M I think you're like, that is the source for your, like, your life and your.

>> Callie Davis:

Oh, absolutely.

>> Andy:

Sustainability and sanity. and all those things.

>> Heather:

Yeah, yeah. The pretense of control is gone.

>> Andy:

Oh, yeah.

>> Heather:

So you can see long gone reality for what it is that we are dependent on the Lord and that is for our good.

>> Callie Davis:

I think it's a strange thing that I don't think we would ever wish the difficulties, the challenges, the times in ministry that we are like barely hanging on. We wouldn't wish that for ourself or for anyone. But there's also this sweetness of every day, that desperate dependence on God. and I remember when I started on the field in ministry, like, that was just so tangible. And when I moved back to the US, I'm like, I'm not going to miss that situation. But also, I know with that, I'm also giving up that every day, needing God to make it to the end of the day, that just coming back to my home culture, my home country, there's just so much ease that, was present that I'm like, I don't want to miss that. I don't want to forget what that was. so it's definitely, there's that season of struggle, but somewhere in that is also often a beautiful lining of needing God so easily.

>> Andy:

It's almost like you're being, I'm thinking of like a cooking metaphor. You're being reduced like you're over a simmer. And the sense of God's presence, it's concentrating because a lot of the stuff is boiling off finding fire, that's what. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

>> Heather:

Interesting.

>> Andy:

You're making it into a nice balsamic glaze or something. I don't know.

>> Heather:

Well, and I was a nice. Yeah. And that's interesting because I was thinking, you know, as Callie was talking, I was thinking about how the word desperation doesn't really. It's not a feel good word, but when you think about what comes on the other end of our desperation with God, it's like our desperation produces his abundance, his mercy. and just thinking, like, if you are a person desperate for a drink of cold water and you get it, it's like, even though desperation sounds horrible, it's actually so refreshing to receive in that state. And that is the reality with God. Like, though we don't deserve it, in our desperation, you know, eyes on him extended towards him. He meets us in abundance and in good, you know?

>> Andy:

And there's just something about living in a season of dependence that you appreciate your desperation. Like, it becomes more real to you.

>> Heather:

Right? Right. Yeah.

>> Andy:

That's good.

>> Heather:

So, Callie, like you mentioned, you have lived and worked in support based roles, and you've also coached others. I'm curious if there are key disciplines or practices that you have seen for investing in spiritual health, either in yourself or in coaching others.

>> Callie Davis:

I think the first one is kind of something I've already mentioned is gratitude. It's something so simple, so small, whether it's a part of your regular quiet time of spending time with God, that's just, hey, what. What am I seeing? What am I thankful for? The big things, the really small things, like. Like really nice cup of coffee to. Actually realize you are thankful for a gift that a beautiful cup of coffee is.

>> Andy:

Amen.

>> Heather:

Amen.

>> Callie Davis:

Just drinking it, moving on. So I do think that is something that is really helpful. Well, I think something that probably matters even more the longer you're in ministry is. Are you looking for what God is doing? I think what I've seen in ministry workers that have, just been working and filling a role and kind of getting not burnt out, but very much in the routine, of what they do year after year into multiple decades, I hear this kind of tiredness of there's nothing new to share. you know, I'm just doing the same thing I've always done. And, yes, I'm called to be here, but that's it. M and I just have to pause them because I'm pretty sure God is still moving. I'm pretty sure he's still changing lives and just that sadness for me to see that they'd stopped seeing God at work.

>> Andy:

Yeah.

>> Callie Davis:

And yeah, the stories might seem very similar of, Oh, my word. I had this small little conversation with one person, but then to pause and say, what is God going to do with that? And what difference did that make to that person? And really actually making some effort to.

>> Heather:

See God at work that m is so good and just so human. Any circumstance we find ourselves in, we can lose sight of what God is up to. Right. Like, I'm a mom of four boys, and on any given day, it probably is good for my heart to be reminded God is working through you in stewarding your time and energy to love on these boys. Even though all the throw pillows are still on the floor and easier to.

>> Andy:

Build a fort that way.

>> Heather:

They're. Yes.

>> Callie Davis:

So true.

>> Heather:

And, you know, even though they still don't want to eat their vegetables, which actually, my kids do, but, you know.

>> Callie Davis:

Yeah.

>> Heather:

it's just. Yeah, I just feel like it's such a human thing to lose sight of what God is doing.

>> Andy:

Totally.

>> Heather:

And. Yeah. And so being. Watching, like, God, I know, I know you're doing something, so please give me eyes to see that. And then turning in gratitude when you do so good.

>> Andy:

And he just has. He has the full perspective. It's so hard when we're in the minute and in the moment to see, like, day to day, minute to minute conversation to conversation, like, what he's actually doing. Yeah. It feels like the routine can lead to, like, just kind of going on autopilot.

>> Callie Davis:

Right.

>> Andy:

So maybe it's worth just a regular prayer. It's part of your. Part of your life. Like, lord, give me ice to see what you're doing.

>> Heather:

It's a gift. Yeah. And I've actually coached people toward physically marking that. Like writing it on a post it and putting it on a wall or something, or having like, a journal of answered prayers or ways you see God working something that concretely, tangibly, physically marks that. I think that can be helpful, a practical way to help with that.

>> Andy:

But we're pretty forgetful.

>> Heather:

Yeah.

>> Andy:

As a species.

>> Heather:

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Have you guys heard of the movie unsung hero?

>> Callie Davis:

Yes.

>> Andy:

No.

>> Heather:

Okay. I saw it. We took our two oldest to see it last week, and it was so good. Yes. Oh, it was so, so good. Callie, have you seen it?

>> Callie Davis:

I have not, but my parents have, and they loved it.

>> Heather:

Yes. It was so good. But something I really appreciated that I'm, reminded of from this conversation. Is it's about their family, and it's about the Lord's provision for their family through some really unexpected and hard things. And the whole family, they had two cards on the walls. One said please and one said thank you. And all of their requests, like their prayer requests, what they were asking God for, they would write and put under please. And then whenever God would answer and provide, they would move it over to thank you. And, like, it showed the kids doing that, and I thought that was awesome.

>> Andy:

That's great.

>> Heather:

Yeah. Just such a, like, visual way to see. Oh, God hears us. God responds so.

>> Andy:

And even if you have kids that are older, I don't think it's ever too late to start something like that. No, I would say even for us.

>> Heather:

yeah, I mean, ah, yeah. Anybody could do that.

>> Andy:

Yeah. Okay, so this might be an obvious answer to this question, Kelly, but what are some of the downsides? Let's have some cautionary tale, maybe about like a fundraising in your own strength.

>> Callie Davis:

Yeah, well, I mean, I think some of it creeps up when you don't expect it, because so much of support raising, especially, I want to say, even more than ministry, there is so much on a person's to do list that feels like it's in your control. It is your responsibility. There's a lot of tasks a person can do, so then it's very easy to slip into. The results are yours as well, and that's where it's not.

>> Andy:

Yeah.

>> Callie Davis:

So that's, I think it's. I think it is an easy slope to. To think that the weight of your success is on your ability.

>> Andy:

Yeah.

>> Callie Davis:

I mean, I think it's always good to remember just even that fact of, I have the things that I am tasked to do, but everyone's response is, according to God.

>> Heather:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Callie Davis:

Not me, not what I want. Because, otherwise, I mean, more than anything, I think when people say no, it becomes the most discouraging thing ever because it's your failure, if it's based on your efforts. I think one of my favorite things to teach or coach on is, why you should get excited when people tell you no to partnership.

>> Andy:

Ooh, tell us.

>> Callie Davis:

Well, I think it's something I just stumbled upon, or. I don't know how I ended up here, but I do get excited when people say no, because I can tell they're always very apologetic. They're always, oh, I wish I could help, but I'm like, no, no, you don't understand. Thank you for having the courage to tell me no. So that you could tell God.

>> Heather:

Yes. Yeah.

>> Callie Davis:

Because he is calling you to something. And it's okay if it's not me. I appreciate that you are saying wholehearted to where God has called you. With your time and your resources and your finances. I am honored that we got to share this. And if God lays you on my heart again, I'd love permission to come back to you in case God does something different. But you are where God wants you, and I wouldn't want you anywhere else.

>> Andy:

That's a great piece of advice.

>> Callie Davis:

That perspective of a no, like, is so freeing. Oh, my word.

>> Andy:

Right? Yeah.

>> Callie Davis:

And so to. And it's also so freeing for the people you talk to as well. They're like, oh, oh, yeah, no, you're. And that, I think, is a great litmus test of, where is your focus and your. Where are you looking for success to come from when you are connecting with partners and raising support? It's how you respond to a no.

>> Heather:

I feel like there should be, like, a liturgy about that. The liturgy of blessing. The. No.

>> Andy:

Ooh.

>> Heather:

Yeah, I might have to work on that.

>> Andy:

Yeah. Talk to Andrew Peterson about that for his next edition of, every moment holy.

>> Heather:

He doesn't write it, though.

>> Andy:

Oh, he does.

>> Heather:

He just. Yeah, I think the rabbit room, just compiles it.

>> Andy:

Okay. They also are not getting any money for this.

>> Heather:

No, they're not.

>> Andy:

Well, that's great, because I think. I think sometimes we might want the fruit of our labor to be a result of our work. Like you want that clear, linear delineation of, I've done this, and therefore this happens. But I think in fundraising, you really don't want that. If you really were to think about that, you really don't want it all on your shoulders. Yeah. That's great.

>> Callie Davis:

Oh, yeah. Well, I think it's been interesting. I've been through two different seasons recently of increasing support, and in the fall, I had one of my amazing ministry partners rounded up, I think, like 20 different referrals. I'm like, good heavens. Bless you.

>> Heather:

Thank you.

>> Callie Davis:

Ah, this is incredible. And I had 20 appointments and they all said no. which is statistically unlikely to be yes.

>> Heather:

Yeah.

>> Callie Davis:

I'm like something, probably because the volume really caused me to say, I think God is doing something different here, and that is something different for me. And I think that I loved just knowing I was mature enough in my journey not to say, I'm doing something horribly wrong. I should give up. We're done. But to say, where is God? Opening doors. And that led me to shift to look, working a lot more locally because I've been back in Arkansas for just over five years now. So there's a lot of new relationships there and seeing a totally different response with people that are like, I only met you just a few years ago. I wasn't sure if we had enough relationship, but I'm like, oh, this is where God has for me. And just being able to see something different, instead of just a, yes or a no, suddenly it's me looking for the movement of God, which is really special and just a whole lot more fun, I'm going to be honest.

>> Heather:

Yeah, absolutely.

>> Andy:

That's an important thing for people who are listening, who have been in the fundraising arena for a long time and have just again fallen, and maybe fallen into that routine and are kind of on autopilot, but are seeing that their income is decreasing over time just to encourage them to reengage the process.

>> Callie Davis:

M

>> Andy:

Don't be afraid of that. Don't just let it keep floating.

>> Heather:

Yeah. So, Callie, again, from your own experience or those that you've worked with, how have you seen it be detrimental to not genuinely prioritize spiritual health in the process of support raising? We know it's possible to hit goals and not be healthy, but what, quote unquote fruit, so to speak, is missing when spiritual health isn't a priority?

>> Callie Davis:

Yeah, that's a great question. I think the evidence of spiritual health comes out when things get hard. And so it's what we invest when things are easy and we feel maybe that we can do a lot on our own strength. But we are building in that perspective, that gratitude, that healthier God vision of what's happening, that when we hit challenges and obstacles and significant number of nos in support raising because we put that time and because we built that foundation, well, suddenly we have the ability to weather that, to weather those obstacles and those challenges. I think what I see as the biggest struggle is people who were really confident in their own ability, they were confident in their communication skills, they were confident in their contact list, they were confident in their network. And all of that personal confidence really, got battered when things didn't just pan out the way they were expecting because they hadn't built quite that same foundation of who is God calling. It's not about what I think is going to happen. It's about what God is building for me in my ministry and the difference of how discouraged a person can get when something doesn't go as they were thinking it would. How that hits you when you're just trying to figure out what is God's next step for you versus you're suddenly, like, back feeling like you're at square one, not knowing what to do because what you plan to do has fallen apart.

>> Heather:

Right. Yeah. So I guess kind of combining a few things I've heard you say, it's almost like maybe some fruit would be kind of attention on God. Like a very godward focus or maybe even a self forgetfulness in that. Just a lot of attentiveness to, like, the movement of God, as you said, versus being turned more inward, thinking goodness, what do I do now? Or I must have done something wrong or.

>> Callie Davis:

Yeah.

>> Heather:

So maybe just the orientation of our attention, whether it's more on self or more on God and what he's up to. yeah, yeah.

>> Callie Davis:

It's a great way to put that.

>> Andy:

And we're less, driven and tossed by the waves of unmet expectations.

>> Heather:

Yeah. Which we all have to wrestle with. I mean, I think it can be so easy. It can be so easy to just be rolling and then realize, like, oop, I need to kind of, like, get my attention back on what the Lord's doing. So it's so easy to do. But I just. I love. I love that we serve a. A father and a God who is so gracious to point to himself through, like, the good and beautiful things in our life, the gifts that he gives us to receive us with a gracious spirit and to help us in our moments of need.

>> Andy:

Before we move on from this, Kelly, I'm curious to know when you were in this season of maybe your needs were increasing and you got all these referrals, but nothing panned out. Was there ever a moment when you had a question, like, is God calling me into something else?

>> Callie Davis:

M. Well, to be really honest, no. But I know that that is a frequent question, a frequent reflection that people have. I think for me, it is still very, very clear just with what God is doing in my work. I think more in that season, I was reflecting on my partner, who had been so excited to help me and was so excited they were going to be this linchpin to help raise all the support I needed. I'm like, what is God doing in their life? And what journey is God having them on? Their vision for? What they could do for me didn't pan out. I think that's actually where I got really curious. And so that's something. I mean, they're still a partner of me. We still talk and are very well connected. And so being able to share where God has been bringing in partnership and more support from. With them has been just very interesting because, you know, I knew God had me taken care of. I just. I think this situation was God doing something bigger. It was more than just about me and my support. It was about my partner. It was about where else he was calling these people. And I just got a little window to see some of it.

>> Heather:

Yeah, I love. I love that. I love that. Because we always talk about how this really is an invitation into formation. Right? Formation on dependence on the Lord. And it's also forming partners because, like you said, who knows what God might have been doing, the movement of God in your partner's life? But. M. Maybe it was for their good, to explore. I thought I was obedient, but that didn't turn out in the way I expected. Or for the people that you went to that said no, how could God have been moving to awaken them to, that's a no. But what is a yes and to then find something that is a yes, you know? So there's just so many. So many ways the Lord could have been at work.

>> Andy:

Maybe each one of them just needed to hear Callie say your no is a, yes for something else that God is asking you to do.

>> Heather:

M. Yeah. So cool.

>> Andy:

Well, I think that's just the benefit, too, of living, like, a long time, sometimes a lifetime. 2030 years for some of the people that we talk to in this state of, like, constant dependence on the Lord. It kind of protects us. It armors us against kind of, again, that shifts of everything around us in a formative way that we don't get in maybe even year one or year two of fundraising. M. Yeah. Okay, so, Kelly, you've been doing this for a while. So by way of encouragement, what else wide open would you want to say to our listeners as they persevere in support based ministry?

>> Callie Davis:

Yeah, I think two things. One, if you are in a season dedicated to support raising, especially if that's something you're raising, your initial support, or maybe you're taking, like, a summer or returning to kind of your home country to do that, remember to Sabbath. I think it's something people don't think of because often when we're attending church is a great time to connect. So, like, Sunday is not the best day necessarily to Sabbath, but, I think especially in support raising, it's time to sit back and say, God doesn't need me to answer that call, even though it's amazing that they're calling me back on my word. God doesn't need me to return that text. My support is so much more about what God is doing than me, doing all these tasks. And so I can honor God and trust that 24 hours will not ruin anything, but God's got me covered. And just to breathe and to give yourself a little bit of space so that you can sustain that effort a little bit longer is huge.

>> Andy:

That's great.

>> Heather:

I love that, Callie, and I'm so glad you articulated that because I just feel like it's such a great reminder. And I love, you know, you, you really have a voice in this space. You know, the work that support raising solutions and now, via generosity, has done to establish themselves as trustworthy and helpful in resourcing in this area. I just think it's so helpful to have you articulate. Yes. You really can set it aside and rest in the Lord.

>> Andy:

Take it from the experts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It forces ourselves to stop working.

>> Callie Davis:

Yeah.

>> Andy:

And shouldering all that responsibility and just depending. Yeah. That's so important. And we rest and we get a good nap in. Whatever it is. Yeah, yeah.

>> Heather:

But I'm curious, you said two things. Was there another thing you wanted to say?

>> Callie Davis:

Yes. I continually find far too often, people are doing their support raising and partnership development alone. And I think it's one of the most isolating things you can do as far as having a task you're trying to accomplish. And we weren't created to live life alone, to struggle and strive and work alone, especially when we're combating all of our insecurities around failure, confidence, money, success, and those all get rolled into support raising. And so why wouldn't you find community? And sometimes it is really hard. And I get that whether you are on the field and you don't have a lot of team around you, or whether your organization is just very decentralized, it can be very difficult to find people to walk with you in that season.

>> Heather:

Yeah.

>> Callie Davis:

but it is so worth it. So that when you're having a week of not seeing God do anything, at least you can still hear of someone else saying, no, God. God is still at work. I saw this. And then when they're discouraged, you get a chance to actually be that witness. And to have someone say that, I see the effort you're putting in and it's just because you're not seeing the fruit of it yet. I recognize the work. I witness your diligence and your faithfulness in this. It is not worth nothing. And to have someone else bear witness to you in that process is. Is life changing.

>> Andy:

Why do you think people don't do this more often?

>> Callie Davis:

I mean, I think because so much of the tasks are individual. I'm calling people I know, I'm meeting with people I know. It's not that we're gonna, like, write a newsletter together, or you can write some of my thank you notes and I'll write some of your thank you. I think so much of the actual tasks are specific to each individual. It seems logical to, oh, I'll just find my little cubicle and I'll just get to work. when in fact, you're missing out on the fact that there is so much more strength and support in community, even if it's just you touch base with a few other people that are maybe in the stretch with you to pray, to share, to kind of, maybe kind of share a little bit of a game plan. So you're like, yes, okay, I'm committed. And then you go your separate ways. But having that touch point can make so much of a difference.

>> Heather:

Yeah. Ah, well, yeah. And it's. It's amazing in terms of, like, neuroscience, what it does for us to be seen and attuned to, even if, like, nobody fixes the problem or nobody can do anything to just be seen, understood, attuned to. It matters at, like, at a brain level.

>> Andy:

I wonder if sometimes people resist it because they're, like, maybe in a position of misunderstanding. They're thinking, well, this is my money. It's kind of a private thing, or I know I'll get sucked into comparison if I know how well somebody else is doing.

>> Heather:

Interesting.

>> Andy:

I have brought that up with people in the past. Like, don't you think you should maybe do this with a friend or with a group? Like, would you like to be included in a group? And a lot of times the pushback I get is, I don't know if I could handle that. I knew I would be drawn into just like, why isn't the Lord working in my life the way he's working in that person's life? Which is unfortunate.

>> Heather:

Yeah. Because really, that's an invitation, right? To see that in yourself is an invitation to see, like, oh, God, hey, what's going on here? Help me let that go, because whatever's going on here is going to come to bear in ministry in some way. Whether it's comparing, they've seen this many people come to the Lord, or this person's getting, you know, it's like, those baptisms. Yeah, yeah. So any of those things are always an invitation, you know? Yeah. Well, this has been great discussion.

>> Andy:

Yeah.

>> Heather:

Yeah. Kelly, I'm curious if you have any books, any favorites on prioritizing spiritual health in the context of ministry or any other resources that you would want to recommend to our listeners.

>> Callie Davis:

Oh, yes, absolutely. I would say my favoritest favorite book to recommend to anyone is the spirituality of fundraising by Henry Nouwen. It's the book I recommend when people are really leery of support raising and kind of don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole, or when people have been in ministry and just kind of have forgotten that heartbeat of, It's about what God is doing. It has nothing to do with methodology. It has nothing to do with, like, how you raise support. It is just the biblical vision and perspective of God and money and this invitation to participate. And it's just. It's like this little booklet. I think you can even sometimes find it free online. It's not this exhaustive dissertation, but it is pure gold, in my opinion.

>> Andy:

Kind of like an extended sermon, almost.

>> Callie Davis:

Yes.

>> Heather:

Yeah, it's good.

>> Andy:

Yeah.

>> Callie Davis:

And then if you're wanting something, maybe just to kind of walk with you and kind of little nuggets. Scott Morton, who, in my mind, is one of the grandfathers of biblical modern day support raising of what that heart and method and perspective is. He, in the last couple years, has released God's presence and 40, devotionals to walk with you in support raising. And it is just a beautiful way to have 40 days of just a little bit more scripture and a little bit more thoughtfulness and reflection around this topic of support raising. That's just really beautiful.

>> Andy:

It's a great resource for doing just what we're talking about, like pointing our vision back to God in the midst of doing something that feels very sometimes clerical and mundane.

>> Heather:

Yeah. And actually, listeners, Scott Morton was on last season, so he's episode 15, and he speaks to that book a little bit.

>> Andy:

Yeah.

>> Heather:

So, yeah.

>> Andy:

So, great fun connection. Yeah. Okay, so last question. Well, second to last question. Penultimate question. Tell us something that you're working on that people should be aware of or something cool that via is doing.

>> Callie Davis:

Ooh. I'll be honest, there is so much that I'm so excited about, so I'm going to try not to give you all.

>> Andy:

Keep it to 30 minutes.

>> Callie Davis:

I, think, well, probably the thing that comes to mind the most after this conversation, especially when we're talking about community and how, to navigate spiritual health and what it means for support raising, I think of one of the resources is coaching. So whether you, want coaching, whether you want to be a coach, this is something pretty new we've released in the last couple of years, and it is specifically support raising coaching training. M because what we found is there's a lot of coaching, like life coaching resources, but they, don't always perfectly dovetail into the support raising skill development because it's about and. And knowing how to do both things, of helping someone develop a new skill, but also helping them navigate this incredibly spiritual formation, formational walk, those are two very different skills that have to come together. And so that's where I have loved this resource. I have gone through it, and it about blew my mind. and so it's also something that, as we train coaches, we try to connect to them with people that don't have access to good coaching. So that's a resource that we do, that connection. But also, if you're wanting to help your staff or help other staff to walk with them so they don't walk alone and so they have a much higher chance of success, we'd love to help you learn how to do that better.

>> Andy:

Awesome.

>> Heather:

Very cool. Very cool. Okay, so, Callie, we have a standard question that we ask everyone when they come on our show, and it is this. You have $10,000 that you have to give away today. Who and what do you give it to and why?

>> Callie Davis:

Oh, reading this question ahead of time, I was so stumped. I would say a lot of times when it's not hypothetical and I have a chance to give or be a part of a financial need, it's because it's real. And God has, like, opened the door of provision. So when it's been hypothetical, I'm like, I don't know what door God's opening. So that made it really hard. I think then I would just go to the need that I know of, and that is, we have our upcoming leaders conference coming up in October, and our dream is always to make it as accessible for international leaders as possible. There is so many more financial barriers. First of all, plane tickets are terrible right now.

>> Heather:

Yes.

>> Callie Davis:

Oh, my word.

>> Heather:

True.

>> Callie Davis:

Let alone visas and just other traveling expenses. And before you know it, like, it's no wonder why it's so hard for some of them to attend. And so we have a scholarship fund, but it can take anywhere from four hundred dollars to two thousand dollars to make our conference accessible to someone, depending on where they're coming from in the world. M and so I think if I, if I had to give it away today, I think I'd want to make it possible for the leaders that couldn't attend, that some of them could, because there are so few, like leadership development resources when it comes to organizational support, raising and infrastructure, and kind of those larger questions, there's so few of them in the world. It's a reason the generosity team exists. And so wanting to make sure that we can be as accessible around the world as possible and, and the vision that money isn't going to be the limit.

>> Andy:

Awesome.

>> Heather:

I love it.

>> Andy:

Good answer.

>> Heather:

And I hope somebody does give you $10,000 and that you can get more leaders here. Well, wonderful. Again, Kelly, thank you so much for your time and your willingness to speak to what I think is a very important element of this journey in support based work. And that is just really prioritizing spiritual health and putting our attention on the Lord. And gratitude. I'm really walking away with a fresh appreciation for gratitude. Yeah.

>> Andy:

Thank you.

>> Callie Davis:

Well, it has been an honor to join you all today and share a little bit of my heartbeat, I think ever since I first got this invitation, the tagline, if it's not about the money, I was so excited. That is, I think, the heartbeat of support raising that too many people miss. It's not about money, but it's about what God is doing. So it has been such a joy to join you today. Thank you.

>> Heather:

And thank you.

>> Andy:

It's not about the money is presented by provisio fundraising solutions, provisio equips, support based workers with flexible training, practical resources, and one on one, one coaching. Find out more@provisiofundraising.com.