It's Not About the Money: In Search of Grounded Fundraising
For us, ministry fundraising is the overflow of a deep sense of purpose. In “It’s Not About the Money”, we look past formulas, and explore both the nuance and the big picture of the fundraising journey. It’s not about tips, tricks, or clever phrasing. It’s about being grounded. Each episode focuses on an aspect of real life as a support-seeker. We hold space for both practice and theory. Join us as we explore the truth that, while the funding is essential, it’s not about the money.
It's Not About the Money: In Search of Grounded Fundraising
33. (Mini Series KICK OFF) The Samuel family: Support Raising in Ethnically Diverse Communities
Join Heather and Andy as they kick off a new mini-series focusing on support raising in ethnically diverse communities with a compelling conversation featuring Brandon and Cat Samuel from Wycliffe Bible Translators. They delve into the Bridge Program, an initiative aimed at bringing more diverse staff into global missions, and share their unique journey from atheism to a Christ-centered mission life.
Brandon and Cat reveal how they transitioned from traditional jobs to fully embracing their calling in missions, highlighting the challenges and blessings of support-based ministry. They discuss the importance of representation in the mission field, the innovative approaches to fundraising in minority communities, and the spiritual formation that comes with relying on God's provision. This episode is a must-listen for anyone involved in or considering support-based ministry, especially within diverse cultural contexts.
✍️ Episode References
Wycliffe Bible Translators
Perspectives
Vanguard of a Missionary Uprising by Michael Farris
The Spirituality of Fundraising by Henri Nouwen
The God Ask by Steve Shadrach
More Than Money, More Than Faith by Paul Johnson
African-Americans in missions
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Give us this day our daily bread. The only thing I heard when I heard that scripture was bread. So I only focused on just the money part of it, just the bread. But then the Lord really focused my eyes on the give and the daily. He is the giver. No matter if it comes in a paycheck, if it comes in a commission check, if it comes in partner support, even if it comes, you know, through entrepreneurial work. It was him that was providing it. He was the giver.
>> Heather:Welcome to it's not about the money, a podcast in search of grounded fundraising. I'm Heather and together with my co host Andy, we look beyond the quick tips and formulas. Join us as we explore the nuance and complexity of ministry fundraising. If you want to thrive in partner development, not just survive it, this is the place for you. Hey there, and welcome back to the show. So this summer we will be showcasing a mini series focused on support raising in ethnically diverse communities and circumstances. And in that series, I am joined by a special co host and we chat with workers all over the globe about their unique journeys to funding. And today we are so pleased to kick off that mini series with a conversation centered on one company's vision and efforts to bring more diverse staff into the global work of missions through the bridge program. That company is Wycliffe Bible translators, and we have invited Brandon and Kat Samuel onto the show today to tell us more about the bridge program. Andy, can you give us a bit more info on Kat and Brandon?
>> Andy:Absolutely. Brandon and Kat have been married since 2010. They are a blended family with six children, three girls and three boys living in Fayetteville, North Carolina. They've always desired to work together, but it's not until they answered the call from the Lord to the mission field that the door opened for the opportunity to not only serve the kingdom, but to do it together following God's vision. They are passionate about getting the word to those who have not read or heard it. It's no secret that in the US, the Bible is easily accessible on multiple platforms and translations. Yet there are still many people in the world praying to get at least one page of God's word in their own language. This reality became Brandon Kat's conviction by the power and strength of God. They want to contribute to other countries by being a blessing to others. Like God's readily available word has been a blessing to them. So, Brandon and Katiefe, welcome. before we really dive in and get started, can you share a little bit about how you stepped into support based work and what your own fundraising experience was like, yeah.
>> Brandon Samuel:So, first and foremost, thank you guys for having us on the show. This is pretty awesome. We're definitely honored to be here. But yeah, to answer your question, in order to really start the question, I really have to set up a preface here. Prior to coming to Christ, I was an atheist. And it wasn't until like, I really heard God's word that, it transformed my life. So just keep that in your mind as we kind of tell you how we were led into this ministry. So, as you said, kind of in the intro there, me and my wife always desired to work together, but it seemed like we were always blocked at every turn. Every time we tried, it just wouldn't work out. So it wasn't until, we started to, really pray into the scripture about how the heart of man plans his ways, but the Lord establishes his steps. I think that's proverbs 16 nine, because that really kind of defined how we were even led to the mission field. And at one point, it wasn't until we finally stepped out in faith and let God take over that we started watching doors open for us.
>> Kat Samuel:so we discovered our passion and desire to work together when we were first married and we couldn't make it work. We tried in various ways, different career paths and things like that, even subscribe to a blog of working couples. But after a while, we just kind of pushed the idea to the side and it kind of got further and further down our to do list. And so, that desire kind of like went away. But, m then something happened with Brandon and his career.
>> Brandon Samuel:Yeah, so, so that was like she said when we first got married. But fast forward to around 2020. I, found myself moving into a season of prayer and self discovery. I was working at a job where we were taken care of financially, but spiritually I was completely dissatisfied. And the main reason for that is, like I said, I grew up atheist, and it was around this time where I actually gave my life to the Lord. We started off married, we were not saved, but, I give my life to Christ. So now I'm working in this job where I'm starting to notice things that I'm doing that are shady, to say the least that I didn't realize before I came to Christ. It's like my eyes were unveiled. So again, we were taken care of financially, but I just was praying to God to release me from that job.
>> Kat Samuel:And so we kind of asked the Lord, like, what should we do? Because we're at this cross point right now. And so we thought because Brandon was really good in technology and, he had a very advanced, mind in regards to it and computer things like maybe cybersecurity would be a good path and it would be time for Brandon to go back to school. So we enrolled in school. We had been on the savings route, so we used our savings for our schooling. And so he started down the path of cyber security.
>> Brandon Samuel:Yeah. So classes start, and everything's going well at first, but, during one of my classes, I remember this vividly, the professor started suggesting that during our free time, that we read the cybersecurity, blogs and articles and things like that to really immerse ourselves in the culture kind of makes sense. But the problem with that suggestion was I didn't want to do any of those things in my free time.
>> Andy:Right.
>> Brandon Samuel:Ah. And again, it was because, since I've gotten saved, and it was 2018 when I gave my life to the Lord, but since I had gotten saved, I became sort of a Bible nerd, where I was just aggressively reading the Bible, like every day, constantly. I just couldn't get enough of it. And there were so many things that, like, no one had ever showed me. Like, for example, I remember going to my wife and being like, did you know that King David and David and Goliath is the same person? Like, just. Little things like that just were so, like, amazing to me.
>> Heather:Yeah.
>> Brandon Samuel:So anyway, this, this like, tiny suggestion kind of became like a wrestling match in my mind, where on one hand I could have just ignored his suggestion, but on the hand it just felt like I was going down the wrong path again. And I just couldn't shake the feeling that maybe I needed to do something else. So, after a long discussion with my wife, we, collectively felt like the Lord had something else in store with us and just, you know, fast forward. That's when we kind of got led down the path of doing missions work.
>> Kat Samuel:And, ah, so we, decided to drop out of school, not say we, because financially we had to do that as well. I mean, what it felt like was irresponsible at the moment. It was actually a bold step that God was calling us into. And if we hadn't taken that step, we wouldn't have seen what God had next to us. And so in that journey, again, in self discovery, again, Brandon decided, oh, let's get one of my close friends, who was a life coach to kind of help us in this process. We needed outside wisdom to help us in this. And so that's what we thought out.
>> Andy:So that led you to Wycliffe?
>> Brandon Samuel:Yes, that led me to the mentor that she was referring to. That kind of led me to Wycliffe. she was suggesting that I go into ministry. And to be honest with you, at first, I was kind of like, nah, I don't want to do ministry. I just felt too, like. I just felt too young. I felt too unworthy, I think is the better word. I felt too unworthy to go into missions. But she really, like, pushed me and encouraged me to at least consider some types of careers that I might be interested in. And she even gave me some homework. She, told me to, you know, before our next session, she was like, I want you to write down four or five different ministry type careers that you think you'd be interested in. And let's think about those and pray about them. So I'm at the computer one night, and I'm frustrated because I'm just googling, like typical millennial, and nothing's appealing to me. And I remember vividly, I slammed the computer down, and I was like, I don't even want to do this, God, what do you want me to do? And I remember hearing him in my head. He was like, I want you to tell the truth. And I was like, tell the truth. At first, that sounded kind of silly, but I was like, okay, I'm just going to type in what's on my heart. I don't know why, but I just felt like I needed to just type in the search bar what was on my heart. So I type in jobs for people who love reading the Bible, because that's kind of all I knew at the time. And it sounded silly. and even worse, I think I typed in, like, jobs for people who love the Bible. I didn't even type it right. But by doing that, one of the first results that popped up was this school for Bible translation. And I kind of thought to myself, what's that? I never even heard of this, but I just got so wrapped up in it that I just wanted to learn more and more about it.
>> Kat Samuel:Yeah. And Brandon came to me. He was so excited about Bible translation. I was kind of vaguely familiar. I'm like, yeah, okay. I think I understand what's happening. Oh. We started researching more, and we found out, like, 1.5 billion people don't have the Bible in the language that they can clearly understand. And that was something that began to tug on our hearts, because, like Brandon said, in light of his coming to Christ, it was all hands on the word of God and knowing who he was and how much he loved us. And this love letter that we have access to in all various forms and formats, those other around the world maybe have one page or maybe nothing at all that speaks to a language that they can understand. And that's when we both felt like God was calling us to missions via Bible translation, and, we joined with them.
>> Heather:Cool. What a, like, beautiful unfolding of the story. Just like, I don't know, like, as you said, just taking little steps in the Lord, kind of providing the next step. Very cool.
>> Andy:So did you then just jump right into, like, a language school or to learning how to decipher new languages and codify them? I'm guessing it's quite a bit different than cybersecurity. So did. Was there some. Some background they had to kind of bring you up to speed on?
>> Brandon Samuel:Yeah, good question. So, yeah, at first, to be honest with you, at first, once I heard the call from God to go into missions, I knew that, like, okay, lord, I'm going to. This is what my plan was in my own head. Okay, lord, I'm going to go back to school, and like you said, I'm going to do all of these trainings that I need to do, and then maybe in four or five years, once I have, like, all these degrees and, you know, certificates and stuff, then I'll start missions work. But again, God had another plan. Like I said, we may plan our ways, but he's the one who guides our steps. So, even though I had that plan, he was like, no, I want you to start now. So he kind of pushed us into these roles that we're currently working now with Wycliffe, where I actually work as a church relationship facilitator, where I help cast vision to churches and support them and serve them in the ways that they need, in order for them to cast a vision to their congregations about global missions and then also travel to different schools and talk to college students and, you know, again, casting that vision to show them how they can use the gifts and talents that God, had given them in order to go into ministry. But, yeah, I am in school, actually, so he made me do both.
>> Andy:Okay. All the above.
>> Heather:And what about you, Kat?
>> Kat Samuel:Yeah, in addition to working with Wipliff, we home school our children. And so Brandon is full time as a missionary, us based, and I am part time. I work as a project coordinator. So all of my work is behind the scenes, which from the beginning, we felt like that's something that God was leading me into that, you know, if Brandon was going to do translation work or scripture engagement in the future, when we go overseas, my role would primarily be something that we're, dealing with behind the scenes, administrative, type of thing. And that's exactly what I'm doing right now. So when God showed us, you know, when we connected with Wickliffe, when we connected with the people there, and we found out that we could start working out even as us based. When I saw the project coordinator role, listed, that was something that I was very intrigued by. And since I started as well, we actually hold, monthly webinars once or twice a month with Wycliffe, and I, help post those webinars as well.
>> Andy:Gotcha.
>> Heather:Very cool. Yeah. From just the short period of time I've had getting to know you, you seem really on top of it. So it feels like that would be a great fit for you, both the homeschooling and the project coordination. So cool. I'm assuming that in order to join the Wycliffe team, you guys had to undergo your own support raising. Is that correct?
>> Brandon Samuel:That is correct. And to be honest, I know that, you know, that's kind of what we're talking about. But I was reminded that, you know, during this process, you know, you just heard our story, but during this process, one thing that ironically never was like on the forefront of my mind was that I was going to need to raise support.
>> Andy:that's just icing.
>> Brandon Samuel:Yeah, the icing, exactly.
>> Kat Samuel:And for me, hearing that this is something we were going to do was very exciting for me. I come from a very entrepreneurial family, and it felt like a business in a way, because it was just like all of these. These new relationships you were establishing, going out and communicating with others, passing that vision, like what Brandon said, so that others want to join and partner. Partner with what you were doing. but unlike being an entrepreneur, the ministry aspect of it, the partnership, the prayer, and all of that time was definitely something that we were ready and equipped for. But how it worked out in our lives, Goddesse continuously showed up along the way and showed us what it needed to look like.
>> Heather:So I'm curious. I know you said that, you know, when you guys got married, neither of you knew the Lord, yet. I'm curious whether you had any context for fundraising or support based work, or whether that was like a totally new concept and what kind of training you received and kind of like how that went.
>> Brandon Samuel:Yeah, like I said, well, I've grew up in the south, so there's a concept of Christianity, you know, just living in the southeast.
>> Andy:Right.
>> Brandon Samuel:even from just a cultural context. So how. Even though I did, like, was forced, I should say, to be honest with you, go to church. As a child, I had never heard of a missionary. No one talked about missionaries at our church. They never came to our church. Or so, like, I had no idea, no concept of what a missionary was until after, coming to Christ and going through school of ministry at our church and just being discipled and learning about these things. And then once we joined Wycliffe, there was training, that we received. they trained all missionaries as soon as they come on staff.
>> Kat Samuel:Yeah. The traditional models of how to fundraise for missions that we learn in various places and even in a part of our own journey did not necessarily work within our culture. Coming from the african american culture, it didn't, always fit when some of the conversations and things that, we were trying to have, we had to understand what it meant for our family when we went to talk to them and to speaking to those within our cultural context. And I would say that not only with our race, but also in our generation as well, there were things that we learned from others who had gone before us in what Wycliffe calls partnership development, or traditionally, you can call fundraising, or, all the different works that go along with that. Some of the things that we learned and we gathered and gleaned, we had to modify it in many ways so that we could reach the people that we were speaking to.
>> Heather:Yeah, yeah, totally.
>> Andy:At the end of the day, did you find that it was majority, like, organizations or churches that were supporting you, or mostly like, individual families or individuals?
>> Kat Samuel:Yeah. So actually, even to today, we have, a wonderful blend of all of those things.
>> Andy:Cool.
>> Kat Samuel:we have individuals. I love our college students that are, you know, just looking at their budgets as small as it is, and they're like, God, you know, do with this what you will, and the number doesn't matter, you know? And so we have those individuals, and then we have, you know, those who are established in their career, and they have a whole family, and then, you know, they really incorporate this into their life. We give to Bible translation, or we are part of global missions in our family. You know, they're establishing, they're giving numbers out of, you know, their marketplace job. They're going to work every day. And then we have organizations that are nonprofit that are partnering with us, which is amazing christian organization and businesses, entrepreneurs who have started businesses. We have the gannet, and, it's wonderful to see the blessing that they've received, you know, since we started partnerships together.
>> Heather:Very cool. Yeah. What you said about just the college students reminded me I was actually editing an episode earlier today. It will be released a little bit later this summer on endurance. And the speaker, the guest that we were talking with, was just talking about, like, who are we to not celebrate what God celebrates in terms of. In thinking about the widow's mite and how she was praised for that, that small measure. And so just thinking about, like, really, any gift is a celebration, you know, who are we to not celebrate what God celebrates? So, yeah, I love that. That's really cool. So, I'm curious. I know that, you know, part of our conversation is around the bridge program. Was that something that preceded you guys with Wycliffe, or is that something that through your experiences, they launched? Can you tell me more about that? Yeah.
>> Brandon Samuel:So, in short, that came after we had already joined WiPA. that's the short answer. There's been variations of that through the years, and this is kind of where it has landed since me and my wife's joining of Wica. When we were introduced to the bridge program, at first I was kind of hesitant, to be honest with you. I remember going to some of our partners and just praying about it, and, like, I don't understand this, you know, and it's funny because, you know, as we're saying, we're trying to get creative and find new ways to reach people in order to raise support. But at the same time, you know, this is just me being naive. I didn't understand what bridge program was, and I didn't want it to be like, you know, maybe this was some pride there, just to be, transparent this handout, so to speak, just because of my ethnic background. But, it was quickly that I uncovered that the real point of this was to inspire the next generation of minorities to be a part of something that in other places around the world are yearning for now, to see more minorities in missions. So I kind of use that as the fuel to be like, yeah, I want to be a part of this. I really want to help give people that vision, because if you remember, like I said earlier, I grew up not hearing about missions, so I wanted to be the person that helps other people know that when they hear the word missionary, they don't just see one cultural context. They can see themselves.
>> Heather:Yes.
>> Andy:So maybe for the listener, clarify, exactly kind of how the bridge program functions.
>> Brandon Samuel:Yeah. So just some, some background. So, Wycliffe is, 80 year old organization, and they've done a, very good job equipping and empowering minority language communities around the globe. However, you know, here in the US, there's people of color who are called to serve admissions, but they often face challenges getting started because traditional support raising models just don't fit our cultural context, as we've been saying.
>> Andy:Yeah.
>> Brandon Samuel:So the bridge program was kind of birthed out of Wycliffe's attempt to answer the question of how do we fix this, and what can we do to help? So, bridge participants that are all Wycliffe staff and, want to participate, their job is to help raise that awareness and support for global Bible translation, as well as innovate new ways to overcome challenges for people of color admissions. And so, with the bridge program, these participants collectively serve with the bridge program, and as they serve, they benefit from the donations that are raised and what we call a pooled fund that we all share, among all of the bridge participants.
>> Heather:Cool.
>> Brandon Samuel:So, it's just one of the many ways that we're trying to find a different way to raise support, really?
>> Andy:Yeah.
>> Heather:Yeah.
>> Andy:I'm sure you have some thoughts about this. and this isn't exactly what this episode is about, but why do you think it's important to have broader representation on the mission field?
>> Brandon Samuel:just my first thoughts, just hearing that question. I was listening to, a gentleman give a presentation about minorities and missions, and he himself had served as a missionary overseas. And a lot of times we're here in America, we can be very separate from what's going on in the world, but it's not that way. Overseas, they tend to know a lot about what's going on in America, even if we don't think they do. And when he went overseas, back in the eighties, you remember going to Africa, and as soon as he gets off the plane, he sees these Africans who are, like, telling him about what's going on in America and then emphasizing this, like, wow, we don't see a lot of black people as missionaries, so it kind of, like, threw him off. That, like, their mindset of, like, receiving the gospel is very dependent on, like, you know, historically, we see the white man come over here and try to, like, colonize us, so why should I trust whatever you're trying to give me? M so, you know, and I'm just saying this off of, you know, historical data.
>> Heather:Right.
>> Brandon Samuel:But there's this concept in their mind of, like, how do we get them to receive the gospel, which is what Bible translation is all about, is like getting in a way that they can understand.
>> Heather:Yeah, totally.
>> Brandon Samuel:Even if getting in a way they can understand also means showing them that, you know, there's people that look just like you that also serve Jesus Christ, then I feel like that's what we should be also exploring as an avenue as well. And you think about, you know, revelation, it talks about every tribe, tongue, language, all being around the throne of God, worshiping him. And I just feel like, personally, like, you know, they got there because of every tongue, tribe and nation participating in missions to make that a reality.
>> Kat Samuel:Another aspect of why it's important to have all, ah, cultures represented in missions, because this is how we get a chance to see the fullness of God when we see all of his representation around the world, participating in missions in some way or another. and when I say missions, you know, we're talking about local but also global is where our focus is primarily, with our Bible translation. But we've seen just in the past, like four years, when there is a more diverse perspective brought in. The innovation changes, the structures of the way things happen before old models are kind of moving off to the side and new models are moving in. And especially within Bible translation, we've seen translation. I know, of course, with technology we can move things faster, but now that we have more voices at the table, the creativity of how the process is done has been exponentially blown out of the water. Translation projects nearing completion that we would be looking at, you know, 80 years before it was happening a long time ago. And like I said, I do understand that technology comes into play with that, but we can just see how God is moving with the, diverse representation in the mission field. So in addition to, you know, everyone being out there, we also have all those perspectives.
>> Heather:Yeah. And I guess just to add one more element to that, and I think we would wholeheartedly agree and celebrate everything you just said is another conversation that we have as part of this mini series. The woman identified that for their organization. They just did not want to live in the dissonance of their workers looking so different from the local people that they were serving and from the local church. And so there shouldn't be such a dissonance between, the representation in those spaces. And so that's, I think, another reason it really matters to. Yeah, yeah. So I guess with your experiences and the time that you've put into thinking through this, what do you see as the greatest challenges for diverse workers as it relates to support based ministry.
>> Brandon Samuel:It's interesting because, you know, we talk about traditional support raising models and how they don't work for the ethnically diverse. And I believe, ironically, because of that, the greatest challenge for minorities is simply that our traditional view of success and our personal value clashes with missions.
>> Kat Samuel:With missions.
>> Brandon Samuel:M there's this understanding, if I'm giving an example, that if I go to college, for example, my next step is to find a job and fulfill this version of the american dream, since it was only up until recent history that minorities were even able to do that. So why would I put all of that effort and education just to throw it all away and, quote, unquote, beg for money and go help somebody else off in a far land? And I'm not just speaking, you know, from the african american community. I have asian american and latin american friends and colleagues who share the same testimony. We sit at the table together, and we all seem to have the same type of testimony. So just going back to that question, I just feel like getting support from my own minority friends and family is a challenge when they are not just mentally all in when it comes to global missions, which causes many minority groups to have to start their support raising journey, like in the hole, almost like they're the negative from the beginning, which. And again, this isn't me trying to say that every minority group should just stop what they're doing and join missions. But I'm just constantly keeping my mind on the question, what happens to that little black boy or a little black girl who feels called to missions but grows up in this context of having that reality stolen from them because no one told them that it was even a choice.
>> Heather:I'm curious whether you see a shift happening in the african american church or in other churches. I know you said you work with churches. I'm curious if you see a shift happening and. And whether you can see maybe the Lord pivoting, whereas it's completely understandable that for so long, the energy and resources and focus have been maybe more local and resourcing and equipping and encouraging. But I don't know, is this a moment where the Lord might be pivoting and shifting focus to more global? Have you seen that?
>> Kat Samuel:Yeah, I have personally, experienced that with, we've been at a few conferences, and we've been able to, you know, chat with other people around the country. And God has been, raising up, like, smaller, little, you know, organizations and nonprofits that have this heart for missions, and because they're not necessarily looking to the history of support raising, or maybe to what majority culture is currently doing, they're getting, like, new and creative ideas of how they go about, raising funds and sending missionaries off. And so I think it's cool to hear about all these little pockets everywhere. And, yes, it's actually very amazing when it's a move of God, because, it's just a stirring in everyone's heart that we should be participating.
>> Heather:I'm actually really excited to see, you know, in the next 510, 20 years the way that the trellis of support raising changes. Right. Because Andy and I, very much, even though we work with training and there are tools that are used in our training that you will probably find in other trainings, we really feel like it's so much about the way God is forming you through the process. And I. I just am really comfortable saying, I think the trellis could look totally different. You know, I mean, I think there's some things that you'll probably continue to see over time, like people connecting over vision, people giving generously or sacrificially. It, being uncomfortable sometimes. Like, there's. I think there's a lot of things that it just is for God to give his provision. But I'm excited to see what new and creative ways, what different trellises could support the work of finding people and knitting them together towards a common purpose, and in that having the exchange of resources and funding. So that's exciting.
>> Kat Samuel:Yes, very. One of the other challenges that I see for diverse workers in support based ministry is knowing our history. And that's something that really excites me. And I would really love to be able to have a megaphone or a megatron and just shout it across, the country. And that is knowing that, like, this is a part of our heritage. We have stories of African Americans buying their way out of slavery in order to send themselves into the mission field. we have native american missionaries that have gone out, like, you can go for, through everyone's culture and find within history those who have gone before us. And I think not having those stories shared and highlighted during our. Maybe our month of celebration or our seasons of celebration or even in our history books kind of makes others feel like, well, is this a place for me? And is it worth going out and taking this leap of faith into support based ministry? I don't even know if we have a history here, but we do. And it's so exciting to be able to hear that history. And so that's one challenge I feel like that's just like almost like a mental hurdle that we may not even be aware of until it's brought to the line.
>> Heather:Yeah. Do you happen to know offhand, and it's fine if you don't any resources or any books or, or maybe we could even provide people with names of people that they could google to read the stories.
>> Kat Samuel:Yes, I can provide those to you afterwards. I can send you an email of resources that we have.
>> Andy:That'd be great just to put it in the show notes.
>> Heather:Yeah, totally. Cool.
>> Andy:Well, Brandon, I'm curious too. Part of your role is to reach out to churches and cast vision. What are some of the high points that you hit when you're trying to educate and kind of broaden their horizons? I guess.
>> Brandon Samuel:just really just the awareness, You would be so surprised, Andy, how many times when I'm speaking to the african american church about things that are going on in missions, especially, obviously with Bible translation, like, wow, I didn't know that. Well, no one told me that. And just again, going back to the support raising and just finding innovative ways to raise support, I was at a conference, actually, where I got to speak about both Bible translation and the bridge program. and it was pretty much predominantly african american and latino crowd and just sharing with them the stories of, you know, African Americans as Katherine was talking about in our history. Like it's our legacy to do missions because there's so many people that already gone before us to do this.
>> Andy:Yeah.
>> Brandon Samuel:And just seeing their faces and hearing their response to this and wanting, getting excited about it, to want to like share this with their congregations and tell them about it was something that was very inspiring. M it was one of the highlights and even more so, we came up with this idea, actually at this conference to find an innovative way to get them to pour into this, group in Ethiopia who is working on a Bible translation. And we were able to fund the entire project. And it just goes to show that a lot of times, I think a lot of people think it's because, you know, minorities don't have resources. Resources. Not the issue. We have resources. It's just the education and awareness and making the space for them to actually want to participate in it that I m think is the true issue because we were able to rate support for an entire project in one evening.
>> Andy:Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I just love the idea of adding a additional voices to this like missional meta narrative. Like, I don't know about you, Heather, but I grew up with my parents reading me stories about these missionary forefathers like Adoniram, Judson and Hudson Taylor, and all these people doing missions work. But I didn't read about anybody that.
>> Heather:Was white or a woman or, I'm sorry, not a man.
>> Andy:Yeah.
>> Heather:Like, I didn't hear about anybody that. Yeah, like, I didn't hear about women until college.
>> Andy:Yeah. So, Man, what a great project.
>> Heather:Yeah.
>> Kat Samuel:Yeah. I would be happy to share with you all of the wonderful names, some that you may have heard of or may not have heard of. And we try to highlight that during, like, our social media time on, like during black History Month and Juneteenth and things like that. But wonderful names like Rebecca Prader, like, if you look her up, that is an amazing person to get resources and names on. what are some other names?
>> Brandon Samuel:George Lyle.
>> Kat Samuel:George Lyle, Betsy Stockton. And that's just, I mean, we're speaking from the african american context, and we have been able to learn about other races and cultures as well, but those are the ones that we usually, try to share with our community.
>> Heather:M. Yeah, very cool.
>> Andy:So we have a lot of examples throughout scripture that point us to God's provision for his people. I'm curious if there are any particular stories or verses that you're drawn to that have kind of formed your own understanding of his provision.
>> Kat Samuel:Yeah, actually, this story, I have a story and a scripture, and they're tied together. And many times I think about this because I get this question, like, you know, what's the verse that you stood on during this time? And that question comes up a lot, but it's a very, very simple scripture. It is Matthew 611, which is a part of the Lord's prayer, and just a little snippet that says, give us this day our daily bread. And I don't know why, but the Lord just continued to have that in my mind before we started in ministry. And it was in regards to God saying to me, even though you have a job, because Brandon, at that time, just before we started, we had a traditional job. He reminded me that he was the one that was giving us our daily bread, and things changed at his job, and he had to go from primarily, you know, all of our money coming from a salary to one that was like commission based. And so it was, again, if the sales don't come in, like, that was what we lived off of. So it was give us this day our daily bread prayer that I had to continuously pray. And I think before I started walking into the. Because the Lord really started preparing us for ministry while we were still working in the marketplace, he was getting our minds kind of wrapped around all of this. And so all of these muscles that we started working before we started exercising them, for sure, once we started raising support. But even before then, I think the only thing I heard when I heard that scripture was that bread. I only focus on just the money part of it, just the bread. But then the Lord really focused my eyes on the give and the daily. And the focus for me was to realize that he is the giver. No matter if it comes in a paycheck, if it comes in a commission check, if it comes in partner support, even if it comes, you know, through maybe entrepreneurial work. It was him that was providing it. He was the giver, and that we should be okay and settled with the daily bread versus, we had a tendency to live life knowing that next month, the check would look just like the check today. And. But for me to put my focus on just on today and that he's providing for today. And I used to be a financial coach, so I'm not telling people not to save and have retirement. I'm nothing, you know, taking away from that, but just really honing you on that. This is our daily bread. And there were periods during our partnership development when we were raising those funds that, you know, the month looked different, and so I had to focus and remember that it was the daily bread that we were.
>> Heather:Yeah, I love that emphasis. M. And how powerful is the redirecting of your gaze? Right. Because if you're looking at the bread, if you're looking at the provision, I really don't know if that leaves. I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to, produce anxiety, but it's not putting your gaze on the father and on your trust in him. Right. It's looking at the outcome, really. And so I really just loved that. And also, I just have to draw this connection. You said that even in the workplace, in the marketplace, he was kind of, like, exercising these muscles that then you needed to use in fundraising. And I think it's the same in, you know, partnership development, fundraising. We use it all pretty interchangeably with the same heart. But I think it's very much the same in moving from kind of the focus on that development into more of a focus on ministry. It's training similar muscles that you then use.
>> Brandon Samuel:You know, another example throughout scripture that I think we really held onto and we still hold on to this is, and we even this kind of become our family motto, is that we're blessed to be a blessing to others. And, it wasn't until we started realizing what we were getting blessed for. And it goes back to what you were saying, heather. Like, we took our eyes off of what God was giving us and kept our eyes on him, and it became this opportunity to, like, I'm not blessed just for the sake of being blessed. There has to be a reason to why he's giving me this. And you see this thing throughout, you know, throughout scripture. Like, we're blessed to be a blessing to others throughout M scripture, from Abraham to the rich women who were helping Jesus ministry during, the gospels. And we really had to, like, start looking at it like that in order to recognize that, like, I'm not just asking people for money just so I can pay my bills.
>> Andy:Right?
>> Brandon Samuel:I'm asking people for money so that I can be a blessing to somebody else, and they will be a blessing to somebody else through the work that God has called us to. And that is, I mean, I'm jumping ahead of myself in my thoughts here, but that kind of makes me turn it from more of a transactional thing where I'm just. I wake up, God gives me daily bread, and then I go about my day.
>> Andy:Yeah.
>> Brandon Samuel:Or I, ask for money, they give me money, and then that's it to, okay, God, you gave me this. What do you want me to do this for?
>> Andy:Yeah. Yeah. It frees you up to do ministry if you frees you up to be fruitful in ways that you wouldn't be able to do if you were so focused on just kind of hitting a quota or just working the nine to five.
>> Brandon Samuel:Yes.
>> Andy:Yeah.
>> Heather:But I actually think it's an invitation for everybody. You know, I think. I think it's an invitation for everybody. No matter how your provision comes, as Kat was saying, it can come in all sorts of ways, but ultimately, it is the Lord's provision. And how differently would our world or our culture look if people received that and didn't feel as though it was kind of the given for the me and mine, but it was given to be a blessing.
>> Andy:Yeah.
>> Heather:That's a really powerful way for all of us to live, ultimately. Yeah. So if you guys were going to design and hold a partnership development training for diverse staff and you could only hit, like, three topics, what would those topics be?
>> Kat Samuel:I used to be a financial coach, and I think stewardship would be the first thing that I would share. And I think that this. This has to deal with, whether you're, receiving or you're giving, realizing what it is, have an inventory of knowing what it is that God has provided for you to manage and then seeking him on how to manage it. Well, that is the number one thing that comes to my mind. And like I said, God started us on this journey before we came to Wycliffe. A little bit of our story is that Brandon and I, when we were first married and we lived kind of a, life, that we made our own decisions. We found ourselves homeless. At one point, we were living in our car and extended stay hotels, but for some reason, God captured our hearts and turned us around financially and spiritually almost simultaneously. And he was just showing us, again, like that, the provision and the daily bread, but then also how we can manage what he's been giving to us. And so we crawled our way out of debt, and we did all of this not knowing that we would be living a lifestyle in which debt needs to be very minimal or not, none at all. And that, you know, continue to carry on that baggage to be able to flow in, you know, the type of work that we currently do.
>> Heather:Yeah. Yet again, a theme of, like, I don't know, just the steps of preparation then unfolding, like, the opportunities he had. Cool.
>> Kat Samuel:Yeah.
>> Heather:Okay, so stewardship, what else?
>> Brandon Samuel:I would say, and it kind of goes into what I was saying, earlier, I would like to really point out and emphasize that raising support is relational, not transactional. I feel like if it becomes transactional, then you're more likely to not build relationship, as I just said, but also not have, like, meaningful partnership with people. We need to view our supporters as shareholders rather than customers. And because of that, when they're a customer, that doesn't mean they're loyal to you at all. That just means they gave you some money and they don't even care about what happens to the money. I'm sure that's kind of easy. We see that with impulse buying all the time. But if you want long lasting relationships, you want transformation for both the ministry in which you're serving in, as well as the person who's giving and showing them the importance of giving, then I think it needs to be more relational. I really. I really would practice that just because I know for us, we spend a lot of time trying to make the ministry our partner's ministry as well. I'll call them and say, what do you think about this? What can we do better with this versus. Hey, guys, thanks for your partnership again this month. I really want them to be involved in it like that.
>> Heather:I love that.
>> Brandon Samuel:And, yeah, I just I don't know, it just, it makes more sense to me. But when I'm saying partnership, to actually live that out versus saying partnership, and then I only talking to them once a month through a newsletter or something.
>> Andy:Yeah. Right.
>> Kat Samuel:I will add, it'll be our third point is that this is God's ministry and not our own.
>> Andy:Yeah.
>> Kat Samuel:And so, though we are in a place where we are seeking the funds in order to accomplish the mission, there will be seasons, and there have been seasons where we are on the other end and we're sending and m so we're all joining in this wonderful mission that God has allowed us to join in on, and we are partnering with him, and you're using the talents and gifts that he has given to us. And so it's not a one sided thing, and transactional, like Brandon said, but this, we are all joining together. I could just see, like, in my mind, we're like reaching around the globe together and plugging the globe with goddess. And all of our arms are not long enough to do it. Kind of have to gather arms to do this together and, be a part of what God is doing.
>> Heather:Very cool. That sounds like an amazing training. You let us know if you do it.
>> Andy:Yeah.
>> Heather:So we've kind of referenced this a couple of times, but in the podcast and just kind of like the heartbeat of what we're about, we just really believe that the process of support development is actually a deeply formative process. And, and I'm just curious, you know, how have you guys seen this process of raising and living on support? How have you seen that form? You or your family?
>> Kat Samuel:Yeah. So the work that we needed to do to be prepared in this started before. It was definitely something that God stirred in our hearts before we even decided that, you know, okay, is missions for us is wicked for us. And some of those things were in our personal finances and how we viewed money, how we managed our money and our resources. Other things were, how do we see God as our provider? How do we see him caring for us? And what does it mean to give and to, be a blessing to others? We went through a lot of changes in our giving, restructuring the way we lived our life. We've made our lives more simple so that we could learn how to give more and how to be a part of God in different ways. And that's giving financially, but we live minimally to try to give of our time as well and of our family, and we've taken our children along that road as well. Everything that we're learning in real time. so Brandon and I are first generation christians and so a lot of the things that we are encountering in God is for the first time for us. but it'll be almost for the second time for our children because I know they will hear the story from us and then God will take them through a little lesson themselves as they become adults. But we took them along that journey with us as well. And when we, you know, decided to live life a little more lean, we share with them why and also the impact of what God was doing because we made those changes. So there was a lot of things that went into our, ah, personal growth, our spiritual growth, our mental and our mental agility and doing those things because, yeah, we were really engulfed in an american life before and we're still american, but we now are, you know, citizens of heaven and it just shifts things a lot. And we joined God on the ride for that.
>> Heather:Cool.
>> Andy:That's awesome. Yeah. Broadens the perspective quite a bit. Yeah.
>> Kat Samuel:Yeah.
>> Brandon Samuel:For me, I think one of the formative processes that really changed me was surrendering myself to God more. I have had control issues in the past, so just, that was one of the bigger things for me. That and patience. I think surrendering and, God giving me more patience was two things that really. I wrestled with God during this process of support raising because I guess speaking again, more into the african american culture, it was like, God, I can just go get another job right now and do both at the same time. We're so used to being resourceful and needing to just, I work two jobs if I need to, just, if this is what you want me to do, I'll do it. But why do I need to sit here and wait for other people to make their decision if they want to support us or not? I'm just being honest here, when I could just go get another job. So it was really hard for to hear God say, not only do I want you to do this, I want you to quit your job and I want you to go back to school. But in that, making those decisions to do that, we've watched God continuously supply our every need. And it's not an exaggeration. I haven't paid a penny for school and I don't know how it's even possible not lack for anything. you know, it's just, it's just been a blessing and a joyous ride when you relinquish that control and give it to God.
>> Andy:Yeah. And if somebody is a first time fundraiser, and they're hearing this and they're like, they're wrapping their head around it. They're like, yeah, I understand this is valuable. It's good for me to release control, and money is, like, the most direct way for me to do that. That's the hardest thing, maybe, to let go of. It's one thing to wrap your mind around it, but it's another thing to live in it. That is a unique challenge. And I think a lot of people face the obstacle of just wanting to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps and just figure things out yourself and the patience, too. Right. Like you mentioned, Brandon, that's, you have to depend on other people, and that's, so hard when, you know, you have the ability just to go get it done.
>> Heather:Well, and your urgency is not their urgency. So sometimes you are waiting because for whatever reason, it's just not the thing on their radar at that moment. Yet youre waiting on them. Yeah, yeah.
>> Kat Samuel:But I know this isn't everyone's journey. Some people, God will call for them to raise their partners and work full time. So that's a constraint on their time, and that will help. That will be how God stretches them in that journey. So I know it'll look different, but just keep your eyes on him and how he's leading you, because whichever path he's leading you into, that's the one that you can trust is going to be in his will and have the results that are rewarding.
>> Andy:Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. The path looks different, but at the end of the day, I think the Lord is interested in what will glorify him the most and bring him the most honor.
>> Kat Samuel:Yeah, yeah. And it brings about our sanctification. Absolutely.
>> Brandon Samuel:You know, she kind of talked about stewardship, but a lot of times, you know, we hear the word stewardship and we only think financially.
>> Andy:Yeah.
>> Brandon Samuel:And, ah, I just watched God, like, do a lot of things in our life that weren't always just, you know, financial, but it still helped us to make it through. You know, there's going to be those months where you, like, you say you're waiting for the yes. From the person that you're asking to partner into your ministry. And we've watched guys just have people randomly want to give us food or randomly want to invite us over for dinner. I mean, even at the end of our process of raising support, if it had been for someone's, like, miraculous gift to us, it started this domino effect that if that wouldn't have happened, we wouldn't have been fully supported, and it had nothing to do with finances at all.
>> Heather:M very cool.
>> Andy:Awesome. Well, guys, as we wrap up, just some closing questions just to make sure we didn't miss anything, I guess, mostly, but by way of encouragement, what else would you want to say to our listeners as they persevere in support based ministry?
>> Kat Samuel:yeah, I would like to say two things. One, to the ethnically diverse community, those coming from the minority community, just letting them know that this is a pioneering journey. Though there are many who have gone before us, there's a gap in which it wasn't so much. And so the work that you're doing, every time you go out and have a conversation with someone and you're sharing with them the vision of, whatever global mission that you are connected with or ministry that you're connected with, like, that's broadening the scope of people who are now aware that we are part of missions, we are part of what God is doing, around the globe. And so even if that conversation doesn't end with partnership on that transactional side, even. Even if it doesn't, maybe it's a prayer partnership, maybe it's an awareness. And so just knowing that everything that you're doing is not just for your financial fundraising, but it's also building that awareness that is needed, and it's just going to grow from there. when God sends his word out, and I know you're sharing God's words, when you're speaking with partner, it doesn't return void. It's going to produce, and it sits in the hearts of those that you speak with. There's people that we've spoken to, about missions, and it's been years, and they'll come to us later and say, that sat with me and I could not shake it and let it go. This is the type of work that God is doing in all of our hearts. And so, remembering that this is a pioneering journey, and sometimes you may not see all of the things that you're doing, but generations coming behind you will see it.
>> Andy:M great.
>> Kat Samuel:And then to the general, just anyone who is in a support based ministry, remembering that this is our spiritual formation, both to those who give and to those who receive. So support based ministry is a way that God allows us to grow as a giver and a receiver. So we're just joining and saying that we agree with the way he has set up, his structures in our world.
>> Andy:Amen.
>> Brandon Samuel:Just to add to that, I would just encourage them by saying to just keep moving forward, knowing that God is the one who is going to supply your needs. I think about, you know, David walking through the valley of shadow of death. Of course, it was scary. Right? It's going to be scary to just transition from, you know, working in the marketplace, like Katherine was saying, where you're used to receiving money on a timely basis.
>> Andy:Yeah.
>> Brandon Samuel:To now waiting on the Lord. But he's always willing. He loves us so much, and he will always provide for you. So if you think that if something's hindering you, if the thing that's hindering you, I should say, is fear, just know that God has called you to this. And if he's called you to this, then he will be the one that provides for you.
>> Andy:Excellent.
>> Heather:It's always a good reminder.
>> Andy:Yes.
>> Heather:He makes it so clear in his word. But, you know, as you were saying earlier, Andy, it can be hard to get your mind around something and hard to walk in it. And it's just always good to be reminded of that. That he has promised.
>> Andy:Yep. He's faithful.
>> Heather:Yeah.
>> Andy:He's faithful. Even if we're faithless.
>> Heather:Yeah. And I know that we've talked about some resources you're going to send our way with just the names of those that have gone before. Are there any other resources that you guys would want to put forward for our listeners?
>> Brandon Samuel:Oh, yeah, well, we love books, so I guess we can maybe suggest some books.
>> Heather:Go for it.
>> Brandon Samuel:Save the titles. Yeah. So some books that I would probably suggest, one big one that we really enjoyed reading was a book by Michael Farris called vanguards of a missionary uprising, challenging christian african american students to lead missions mobilization. That was a very good book.
>> Andy:Fantastic.
>> Heather:Sounds like a great book.
>> Andy:I love the title.
>> Brandon Samuel:Yeah, it's a very long title, but it's a really good book. and also, I think a, very small book. And that's a fairly big book. A, smaller book would be the spirituality of fundraising. I'm sure you guys have heard of that.
>> Heather:Yes.
>> Andy:Yep. That's a great one.
>> Brandon Samuel:It's a really good book.
>> Kat Samuel:When we joined Wycliffe, we were introduced to a few titles that we hadn't heard of before. One of them would be the God ass. And more than money, more than faith by Paul Johnson. And then also, for those who are interested individually, but then also as a church, like, you want to, introduce global missions to church, or, you know, how God is working around the world, of course, called perspectives. I know many people may be aware of that. but you can get college credit for it if you're in Bible school and stuff like that. So those are things that have been impactful for us.
>> Andy:That's a good highlight. Awesome. Well, guys, this has been a treat. Thank you so much for taking the time. We do have one final kind of fun question that we always ask as we wrap up. So here's, here's the scenario. somehow you suddenly receive $10,000 and you, the one, condition is you have to give it away. So you have just a little bit of time to decide. I'm curious to know who or what would you give that money to?
>> Kat Samuel:So I'm a homesteader mom, and so I always have one, one brain cell. Well, not one brain cell, lots of brain cells. Thinking about homeschooling and teaching and curriculum and stuff like that. And I think that I would put that into developing a really well rounded and robust course for youth. And I would start as early as like late elementary, like fifth grade, and then also really capturing those junior high students. I really think that's a, formative, time to be able to raise awareness about God's local and global missions and the invitation to all of us to participate and all the different ways that you could participate. So I think that would be really awesome. And homeschool, moms could teach it to their kids. They could do it in private school schools, even in maybe a Sunday school setting, like, and it would just be like several, maybe weeks or days worth of information that they would share with the children. A little bit of history, a little bit of stewardship.
>> Andy:Yeah.
>> Kat Samuel:A little bit of, Here I am, Lord send me.
>> Andy:Spoken like an entrepreneur.
>> Heather:Yep.
>> Brandon Samuel:Yes.
>> Heather:I hope that happens.
>> Brandon Samuel:Yeah, that's awesome. I might steal some idea cause my head's still thinking about the question before when you talked about resources. I think I would build something similar to that. Like, I would like maybe some type of highly interactive e force or website that kind of like walks a person through the history of minorities and missions to just really drive home, the importance of continuing our legacy and missions and just also have it include information about how to support, raise and challenges, ups and downs, like all of these things. Just a really robust immersive experience, especially since I have ten k to do it. So I just make it like the greatest website of all time. and just make it free so everybody can just enjoy it and share it.
>> Andy:I think that would get a lot of clicks.
>> Heather:Yeah, well, and I just really love. So I think I'm not sure that any of our other guests have channeled that towards something they do to educate others.
>> Andy:Yeah. Right.
>> Heather:And I just love that response.
>> Andy:That's great for both of you.
>> Heather:Yeah. Where your mind immediately went.
>> Andy:Yeah.
>> Heather:Well, it has been an absolute delight to host you guys today. Thank you so much for your willingness to join us and just to speak into a really, I think, important and timely and consequential topic.
>> Andy:And to kick off the mini series.
>> Heather:And to kick off the mini series. Yeah.
>> Andy:Yeah. Awesome. Thanks, guys.
>> Brandon Samuel:Thanks for having us.
>> Andy:Yeah, I appreciate you. It's not about the money is presented by proviso fundraising solutions, provisio equips, support based workers with flexible training, practical resources, and one on one coaching. Find out more@provisiofundraising.com.