34. (Mini Series EP 1) Jenn Smyth

Join Heather and her new co-host, Jen Smith, as they kick off a mini-series focusing on support raising in ethnically diverse communities. Jen shares her unique journey from high school fundraisers to long-term missions in China, and the cultural nuances she navigated within Korean American churches. Together, they explore the generational shifts in the Korean church, the importance of relational fundraising, and the power of being sent by a local church.

From personal anecdotes to practical advice, this episode is packed with insights that will resonate with anyone involved in support-based ministry. Whether you're just starting out or are a seasoned fundraiser, you'll find valuable takeaways to ground you in God's call and His promise to provide.

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Transcript

>> Heather: 0:04

Welcome to it's not about the money, a podcast in search of grounded fundraising. I'm Heather and together with my co host Andy, we look beyond the quick tips and formulas. Join us as we explore the nuance and complexity of ministry fundraising. If you want to thrive in partner development, not just survive it, this is the place for you. Hello and welcome back to the podcast. So, for the next several weeks, we are focusing on conversations. Conversations that engage the unique and nuanced considerations that come with support raising in ethnically diverse populations. We believe that there are universal truths that apply to the fundraising process, but we also believe that not all funding communities are equally equipped. And as you've heard us say many times, the work of support raising certainly is not a formula. So we have invited fundraisers from a variety of backgrounds to engage these conversations with us. We trust that parts of their story will resonate with your own and that there will still be questions you wrestle with. We do not have all the answers, but we know that his guidance and word are sufficient for all things. And it is our hope that these episodes ground you in his call, his character, and his promise to provide for his people. So the timing for this mini series corresponds with the newest module that has been developed for proviso training, a four part module on support raising in ethnically diverse communities that explores diversity and brokenness. God's kingdom, different considerations for diverse contexts, different strategies in support raising and tailoring your message for maximum effectiveness. This module is available through the training provided@provisiofundraising.com. oh, and one last thing to share regarding what you can expect in this series. We have a new voice on the podcast. So for this series in particular, it is my pleasure to be joined by Jen Smith as my co host. You might recognize Jen from a prior episode of not about the money, which was aired early December on moving through stress. And so she shares a bit about her experience in that episode, which you should definitely go back to and listen to. But I'd like to invite her now to share a bit about what she brings into this space and why she was willing to join me for these conversations. Yes, hello, and thank you for having me back, Heather. so if you did not get a chance to listen, I really, really enjoyed having the conversation on moving and navigating through stress, particularly through fundraising. So go back to that episode if you haven't had a chance, but if you haven't listened to that, I shared a bit of my background, and just to give these listeners today a bit of a backstory of me. I have fundraised over the course of my life, through high school, through college, through my young adult life. I'm now a mama to a almost 20 month old. My husband and I are still very much in the world of fundraising. So even though I may not personally be fundraising myself, my husband works for a nonprofit.org, that still very much focuses on sending individuals across the globe, and he helps fundraise at the organizational level. so that's really fun to still have our lives wrapped around this space. and then when Heather asked me to be on this mini series, at first I was a little hesitant, actually, I don't know if I told you this. No, you didn't. so it perked my interest because, one, it was about talking about diverse backgrounds and being ethnically different in this space. So at first I was a little hesitant because I thought, what am I going to bring to the conversation? Like, I feel I just was another individual doing this thing. But then when I paused, I realized there isn't much talk, specifically in the korean culture, in the korean american culture, about fundraising. And so I thought, well, if anything, I'm just sharing my story. Again, I'm not an expert, and I'm not going to speak on, behalf of Koreans and Korean Americans, but I want to share a little bit of my perspective. So from that lens, I got really excited. Awesome. Yeah. I'm glad you said yes. I know you shared a little, but can you just share a bit about you and what life looks like for you right now? Yeah. So right now, currently, I am thick in the mommying season. As mentioned in my intro, I have an almost 20 month old son. my husband and I are first time parents. And so going through these new seasons, each season as it comes, is brand spanking new. so that's been really fun. On the work side, I am a virtual assistant. I help several clients do, I don't know, a multitude of things for businesses. on the back end, I do. I help with a lot of operations and a lot of social media, that kind of stuff. And then I also teach yoga part time. My husband and I have been married for eleven years come this March 2024. And also, as mentioned in the intro, we're just very much still in this nonprofit, uh.org space, helping and being just in the mindset of fundraising as a whole. Awesome. Well, thank you for that. And the listeners should know you can probably kind of hear this in her voice. But another reason I was so excited that Jen was going to join me in this space is because she is just a natural encourager, and you can't help but be encouraged when you walk away from a conversation with Jen. So thank you. Yeah, you're very welcome. Okay, so, Jen, can you paint a picture for us of what your initial fundraising season was like? Like how you felt about fundraising, what kind of training you received, maybe some of the obstacles you had. Sure. So when I think of fundraising and the experiences that I've had, it falls under two categories for me. So I've done short term fundraising, and I've also done long term fundraising. So short term, meaning short trips, shorter trips, one week to a month, to a whole summer in college. So three months, two, three months, and then long term, anything. I don't know anything even beyond that. Six months to a year to longer than that. So for me, I did some short term fundraising and high school to go on short term trips. And then long term, I went overseas to China for three years. And so the two experiences, short term versus long term, were interesting. I will say for short term, it felt easier. Right. Because the amounts in and of themselves are smaller. And of course, for long term, you're trying to, at least in my experience, it was the goal to get monthly supporters, monthly people to join your support team, to give. And so when I was going short term, it was m more so, you know, write a letter, send it out to all of your people, and then if people have questions, jump on a phone call with them. This was before social media. Jump on a phone call with them, or if you want to meet with them, you can. so that was the case for long term. I had a team from my, supporting me, but I had actually great support from my sending churches, quote unquote. So I had a sending church from my hometown in Atlanta, and then I had a sending church in Philadelphia, where I went to school. And so I had two sending churches. But I would say the Philadelphia church was, really monumental, in making that journey positive for me. When I was first fundraising to go overseas long term, because the missions whole, like, team, the missions pastor, he was newly hired, and I remember I was going to be one of like the first three long term missionaries from this church to go. And so it was very like gung ho. So I felt really supported. he would meet with me, he encouraged me to form a group of, I don't think there is a number, but I formed a group of four individuals who then would commit to supporting me in all types of ways. When I was actually in China. Sure. Okay. So every month we would meet on Skype, and the four individuals would be there, and then they would invite a bunch of other people from the church. So whether it was people from my small group or just others in the church who were interested in missions or interested in what I was doing. And so it was so encouraging, especially as this young 20 something going across the globe for the first time to do this work, just to know that I could look forward to my friends and family monthly, and I could come to them with my needs. I could come to them with prayer requests. that was really pivotal. Yeah. And it sounds a lot like we would call it a core team, kind of like developing a really intentional group of people that are kind of bought into doing whatever it is you need help with. So. Yeah, that's great. That's really cool. Yeah. And did the organization, when you went long term, did you have any kind of training? I want to say yes, I did have a, what we called a candidate counselor who walked alongside of me through this whole journey before I got onto the field, before I left on the plane to go to China. And I remember having. I think what is memorable is we had, like, deadlines. Right. You have what we call a profile. So a set number, to raise support for your first year, for your second year. and you had a goal to reach this amount by this date, then this amount by this date. And then I think it was like, you're in the green in, like, a celebration. And I remember that. So I remember the deadlines, and I remember, like, having the resources along the way, but it's not super memorable for me. Heather, is that so bad? No, that's okay. That's okay. Well, and, you know, I think it speaks to maybe being a positive experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. It was positive. It was stressful at the same time. And the context is interesting, too, because. So I mentioned my sending churches. Right. So I mentioned my church in Philly, and I also mentioned my church in Atlanta. Both are actually predominantly asian churches. Okay. So the church in Philly was a little bit more diverse. It was primarily a korean church. That turned into a very diverse church, situated in West Philadelphia, which is very diverse in and of itself, versus my church in Atlanta, which was a predominantly korean church. Okay. And when I speak of the korean church, the korean church is also two parts. Okay? So I'm first generation american born, meaning my parents immigrated here. Right. And then my sister and I were born as Americans here. So the church that was my parents generation and before are all immigrant churches. So think of all of like the current churches that you may think of, or asian churches that are of the parents who are currently in their sixties, seventies, eighties even. They're pretty much all immigrants who came right. To make a life in America. And so church became this place where they would meet and just find a grounding where they felt like home. Right? Yeah. And of course faith is involved, but it was just a lot of coming home for people. Thank you. The next generation, my generation of Korean Americans, kind of korean speaking. I am bilingual, but you know, you get this mix of like kids who are growing up in America who want, who love the korean culture and know the korean culture, but they want to be american. When the korean church is thought of now, it's really interesting. It's changing too. so you have my parents generation church, which is all korean speaking. We would call my churches growing up like the korean service versus the english ministry service. The KM or the Em korean ministry Service or the english ministry service, meaning are you gonna go to the korean speaking service or are you gonna go to like the cool english speaking service? and within that space, the view on, missions and the view on support raising is really interesting as well. So when I was thinking through like, in my context of fundraising, it was, it was primarily in the asian right church. And it differed so from my Atlanta church, it was, oh, cool, we support you. But I didn't really see the funds come in because I realized the mission focus was like a, yes, we as a church believe in the global mission and sending missionaries. However, we're still focused here because if you think of like the immigrant mindset, They're still trying to assimilate, they're still trying to survive, they're still trying to pour into that church, like where they are. So then to think I'm going to send you where, like, it's kind of almost foreign. Not foreign because they know it's biblical, but foreign because they don't know how to act on it. Versus the Philly church, they still had a km that was thriving, but the Em was vast. M right. And like I said, it was much more diverse than my Atlanta church. And the idea of missions, ah, was acted upon more meaning. They understood what the biblical mandate was. They took it to heart and they really believed in it. They really understood that generation, of people. So my generation and, older the km was bought in. So there's that difference too. The cam buying into what the Em is doing. And it's the Em, my generation of, folks who are wanting to go to other countries more. Yeah, that's really interesting. And I mean, obviously you were intentional to note that you can speak from your experience, but obviously it can't speak for what everybody's church looks like or whatever. But it is really helpful to have you identify some of these nuances within your experience and within the expression of the korean church and how even generationally that, has some distinctions and really just pointing out. I think it's helpful to understand that maybe in a context where people have immigrated, their focus is still on making this home and on investing here. I think that that's a really helpful just point of reference for our listener. Right. Would you say that it was an obstacle for you, that you had support, but not financial support from the church in Atlanta? Or would you say that that didn't really prove to be a difficulty? I don't think I really thought of it as a difficulty at the time, but now, looking back, I think it definitely was, because I think the feelings that I think of are much more positive when I think of the Philly support. Right. And when I think of the Atlanta support, it's almost like a wah, wah. Like, I did all the same work. I made sure I was meeting with people face to face. I presented in front of the congregation, I went to small groups, I did all the same things to share in what my life was going to look like, why I'm going, my heart and desire for it. And it was almost like the return on investment wasn't the same at all. And I think at the time, I took it just as this is just the way it is. I think I just, at the time, in my young 20 something, mine was just like, okay, this is the south and the northeast is different, but now I'm like, man, it probably was this cultural, generational thing that, again, maybe in the south is just because the Atlanta church was more km focused, meaning like the older generation focused. It just wasn't a thing at the time. Hm. You know? Yeah. So in the new curriculum, we explore that there can be some differences in values. For example, culturally, in America presently, individualism is a high value. and so it can feel like a conflict in values to support race, because in asking for support, you're kind of going against this value of independence and m you're asking, you're needing from someone else. So I'm curious whether there were any competing values that played out within the korean church setting. Whether it felt inappropriate to make a direct ask or if it felt like it wasn't appropriate to ask for individual meetings, or if it's more something that the church as a whole supports and not necessarily individuals. Does that make sense? Yes, totally. And I actually, I'm glad you're asking this because I was going to mention this before too, when talking about the differences in the current church. so another big thing in the current culture, as a whole, is this idea of if you're having problems, quote unquote, you don't ask for help, you're gonna work through it on your own, you're gonna work through it as a family, you don't talk about it. So equate that to needing money, right. Even if it's biblically fundraising for a greater mission that still falls under, you need help. Right. And so that's a great point you bring up, because in the Atlanta church, because it was more km, korean ministry focused the older generation, I did feel like I couldn't ask directly. I felt like what I could do was share broadly of what I was going to do. And it wasn't like this invitation to come join my team. Rather, this is what I'm doing and these are the great things that I'm going to achieve. And I did, I think, feel like I couldn't ask for the money directly. And even my mom, I remember, when I was starting to support rays, she understood why there was a need to meet with people face to face or talk in front of the congregation and do those great things. And she was very proud. But when it came to even asking for my mom's support, it was very foreign and she didn't understand. Okay, maybe I give a one time gift. but why monthly? Why would I do that ongoing? And another example is my mom's best friends. They're actually pastors of another church, a korean church, only speaking church. And they gave me like a one time gift and that was that. Right. And so I think it was just like a, if you have relationship with this person, with me, they were more apt to give. However, as a whole, it just felt weird in the current culture to directly ask for money. Yeah. It's almost this like saving face mentality. If you're going through something, if you're needing help, you're needing money, you're going to do it on your own to do what you got to do. Yeah. So I'm really curious, what did it look like once you were on the field, would you say that a majority of your gifts were one time gifts, or did you have enough monthly partners that you didn't really need to do fundraising from the field? Great question. So, for my very first year, I hit that green light, meaning I was fully funded for my first year, but then the work continues. Right, right. And, for my second year, I. And I think if I remember correctly, when I was going, the goal was to hit that first green light, but then to try to get 50% or more for your second year so that you're not stressing about it so much as you're going into the school year as you're ready to go into ministry. and I remember how I hit that first green light was a mixture, a good, healthy mixture of monthly donors and, like, big bulk donations and, of course, those smaller one time donations. but for example, my Philly church, my Philadelphia church that I speak a lot of, they gave a big bulk one time donation. And then, like, early on in my journey, that year of fundraising, before I left for China. And I remember I was so close to my green light mark, but I had almost exhausted my network. I almost exhausted the people that I could reach out. And I brought this up to my missions pastor. I brought this up to my core team, and they ended up giving another one time, like, bulk donation. Very cool to get me to that finish line, so to say. But then on the field, you know, honestly, Heather, I'm just gonna be straight up here. When you get on the field, especially as, like, a first time, you're just kind of surviving. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I was in China. I'm korean american. I was dealing with getting confused as a student daily, and I was getting confused as a chinese person, chinese national daily. So I was, you know, dealing with those kinds of things. But you're just surviving, you know, your first semester, your second semester. Cause you're dealing with the cultural stuff, but you're also dealing with just a whole life change. So I would say that it was really stressful knowing that I wasn't fully, funded for my second year, as, like, the semester has progressed as, like, fall semester. I'm, like, already dealing with all the hard stuff at transition, and then second semester, you're hitting your strike, kind of, but then you're like, wait, I gotta go home and do this whole support raising thing, fundraising thing again. For me, what was hard was I was joining an.org at the time in my cohort in 2009, I was one of three Asian Americans going on the field out of like 100. Wow. Yes. And was that in the whole company or just going at that time? Going at that time. And I remember, you know, because the korean church is a very missions gung ho, but I, I remember getting to orientation and I was so excited to see other Asians because that had been my whole life. Like, hm. Growing up in the korean church, and even in college, I was a part of an asian american ministry, like all this stuff. And I remember getting to orientation, stepping off the plane, meeting everybody and thinking, wow. Like, I'm just one of three and I bring that up because the context that I was support raising in had the challenges that I've spoken of. But I, when compared to my other cohort members, I felt like everybody else is in a more healthier spot. Meaning they were fully funded through their second year or more. Interesting. Yeah. And I bring that up to say here I was fundraising in the korean church versus others who are raising funds in like the white american church. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So from that, you felt like there was some dissonance in terms of what the networks had been providing. Yes, totally. Yeah. One thing I wanted to ask was, in the korean church, how appropriate is it to ask for referrals in your experience? When you think of like the immigrants, right. They're coming to America, many of them don't speak a lot of English, so it's all word of mouth. But it's not really in this context of, I have a referral for you. It's just this natural, like, hey, you need a doctor, go see this person. You need this, go see this person or whatever. but I think it's the direct ask. It's like the direct way of saying things that you have to go about it in a roundabout way. I'm having a light bulb momentous. Yeah. Cause I guess like when it comes to fundraising, you are on this like mission to m reach your goals, to get x amount in, and it's like you're coached. You have this idea that I have to ask directly. I have to do these questions, I have to do it this way. But I'm realizing right now I was going about it the wrong way. Tell me more, what would you have done? Just that I wouldn't have been. So in my Atlanta church, I said that I wasn't direct. But maybe just like having, sitting across from these older generation folks, like my mom's generation, and just having more conversations with them, I think I was just nervous and scared. To do that. Right. Because I thought my approach needed to be direct. But now I'm realizing it would have been just great to just be conversational and be in a relationship with them and then they're on board because they're realizing, oh, I want to help. Yes. And I actually think I'm, so thankful you said that, because I think that communicates the power of relationship, the power of being present, being willing to engage, and not just kind of falling back on a rote set of what you should do. Right. I mean, there are things that are helpful. You need to be prepared to speak about what you're going to be doing. You need to be prepared, understanding what your needs are. Like, you need to be prepared. But yes, to feel like your conversations need to look like, you know, ask a good question and follow up with my story and then follow up with my ask. And then ask for three referrals. Yeah. Like, it just, I don't think that's the way it's meant to be, you. Know, and that brings up, actually, this was like a negative experience. And the referral thing, like just brought a whole other memory up. So I remember, I think this is more on, like my short term training for fundraising, but I remember I was given this worksheet. Literally, it was like, ask this question and then do this and then talk about this and then make sure you ask for three referrals, like stranger referrals from the people that you've met with. And I remember going home with this worksheet and thinking, what? Yeah, it feels so foreign to then be like, I'm gonna reach out to these strangers. Even if they're on board. Like, it feels so weird. And actually I remember just. Cause here I am, brand new, doing the things, checking off the list, and I was asking for referrals. And I remember one of my friends got really upset about it. M he was like, I'm not gonna give you any other names. That's really weird. And he was a Chinese American. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. And I remember pausing and being like, I should have listened to my gut and not gone and understood, like, who, who am I asking of this too? Right, right. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's the key. And I think that's what we try to go back to over and over is just being spirit led. And it's not a formula. Right. Because again, I think referrals can have their place. Like, I'm, I'm actually a person that I love networking. I love connecting people with meaningful opportunities. And so I honestly don't need people to ask for me for a referral, for me to be thinking, who else can I connect with? Right. so I think. I think sometimes it can be really meaningful, and if the spirit prompts like that can. That can bridge relationships that you would have never otherwise had. But definitely when you have a feeling like m when your gut saying no. Yeah. Follow that. Yeah. Okay. So I know that the korean family unit is very close. How important was buy in from your family in your ability to move forward into ministry and into fundraising? Ooh, good question. So this question is a little difficult for me to answer only because my background with my family, my family has a different story in that. A little bit more broken. my dad wasn't in the picture, so it was only my mom. but actually, during those times, it was a very dark, broken, heavy season of that my mom's still trying to navigate. Am I gonna. Is she gonna leave my dad? What's gonna happen? And me coming home between being in China and then, previously coming home, for college breaks and stuff, just not feeling safe. And so my family unit was more so my mom and my sister. And so when I was making the decision to go overseas into fundraise, it was more. So I made that decision for myself. And telling my mom was difficult. Cause she felt like she was losing me. And even though she is a believer, even though she understands, going and serving, she still really struggled with letting me go. And one of her first questions was, why China, not Korea? Like, why not go to our own country? And share the gospel? And I actually got that a lot from other Koreans. Other Korean Americans, too. Interesting. You're so close to Korea, why would you not hop over to Korea? Why are you going to China? And my answer was, Korea is one of the most evangelized countries in the whole world, and they've got all the funding. Right. Yeah. So I'm going to go to a country that's not so much. Right. Right. Yeah. Do you feel like that made a difference in people's willingness to partner with you? No. but I did. Ooh, that's a good question, too. That brings up another topic. So I had also been to China on a short term mission trip, but it was with a focus on North Korea. So m. It was actually a prayer trip for North Korea. We were right on the border in northeast China. And actually, that's what spurred me on to go back to China long term. But the difference I'm having all these light bulb moments. Heather, the difference now, looking at, like, when I was fundraising to say I was going to help and serve the North Koreans was vastly different than when I was saying I was going to serve China, right? Yes. Because again, in this korean mindset, it's like we all do this together. And, okay, cool, North Korea, bad. But you know, from the south korean mindset. Right. But we're still korean, right? Yes. I'm gonna support you. It was much easier to fundraise when I was going for those efforts rather than just China. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I know. I would love to hear a story, maybe anything that comes to mind, and just thinking about, wow, that is a moment that God provided. M that's a moment when I believed he is with me in this and he is providing, oh, that just brought. Tears to my eyes. so I mentioned this a little bit previously, but. And I also mentioned this kind of, in detail in that navigating stress episode. That Heather mentioned I was on, but that year that I was support raising and fundraising to go to China for my first year was a really, really difficult year personally. So just to recap, I was alone post college, living in Philadelphia with my church family. but I didn't have any family near me. And within that year, I, my apartment was broken into, and then I had major surgery. So, like, halfway through, my fundraising journey that year, I almost lost my right ovary. And it got to the point where I thought, and I didn't have insurance, and it got to the point where I thought, this is it. I can't go, like, how am I ever gonna afford this? How am I ever gonna get through this? How am m I ever going to raise the rest of my funding? And I remember being so almost depressed about it, you know, I had the surgery, I was healing from the surgery, and I had paused on my fundraising efforts at that point and thinking I was so behind. And I was trying to do, at the time, the, was providing, a master's degree program. And so I was having to raise extra support for that. And then I was trying to take, I was trying to get accepted into the crab program. So all of this was happening. And I remember I was just feeling so defeated and so at all loss and truly not feeling like I was going to make it to go. And not feeling like I could go. And I remember, like I had said, the church had, my Philly church had given me a bulk donation, which was significant. Right. I, mean, they took I mean, they pay for about a third at that point of what I needed to raise. Yes. And then add on my small group members and my core team, they all became my monthly supporters. but I got to this point, and I literally was like, there's no one else. There's nothing else. I can't do it, God. I'll go another year. And I just remember sitting in front of my core team and the missions pastor and just feeling so defeated and then praying over me and this, and then the missions pastor saying, hey, we have extra funding within the church. We would love to get you to that green light, and we would love to support you, even personally, during this time. And I just remember feeling so, I was just speechless because again, I felt alone. I didn't have family. I was just trying to make ends meet and do the thing and, ah, just feeling so wrapped not only in God's love, but just this community of people who were really on board. Yeah, sounds like they stepped up in a big way. In a huge way. Man, that is beautiful. And I think really speaks to the importance of being sent by a local church. We have a prior episode with Drew Riemke, from pioneers, and just talking about the importance, even if you have a great sending organization, the importance of having your local church behind you. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so I guess for those that are listening, that might be coming at this conversation from a different experience and background, what do you wish they understood about fundraising in your context or what might be helpful for them? I think as just that light bulb moment that I was having myself, you know, that there are, in the korean context, in the korean culture and church, there's just this generational shift that's happening. And I'm even realizing it for myself because currently. So I was speaking to what it was for my generation, but now shift to my son's generation. Right. It's this next level of even more. So what's going to be the focus? Like, it used to be very korean immigrant life. We're just surviving focus to, like, okay, now we can be outward, like, we can send more, we can do more, and even more so for the next generation. So just understanding that in the current context, everybody's navigating this at different times. Right. Like I mentioned, the two churches, both korean background, both asian background, but both on different levels of where they were at navigating this. And now as the generation progress, it's just people are riding that wave at different levels and at different times at different lengths. So just giving grace with that, too. And I think, like, me having all these light bulb moments during this conversation, it's like sometimes we don't even know what's going on. And sometimes I don't even see all the cultural aspects that are happening right as it's happening right. Until I can scan back and be like, oh, that's why I was feeling that way. Yeah. And I guess for anybody listening that might be coming from a korean background or even an asian background, maybe that's too broad. Maybe Korean is more appropriate. what would you want to say by way of encouragement to them? I think the missions movement is really strong in our generation currently. I think it's a deeper love for Jesus and God and the world, meaning. So when I was thinking through, like, how the church has changed, even in my journey, right. I have seen people in my generation almost step away from the church and kind of find other things, so to say. But what I've realized is the people in my generation who have stuck true, they're like, really in it. They really love the Lord, and they really love God's people, and they really love just the global scene of what God's doing. And so I think that's really cool to just be reminded of that. Even though all these shifts are happening in the korean church generationally and even personally, there's God's at work and God's healing. I think that's another big thing that I think of. I think of generational scars that might be in place, because a lot of immigrant families come from such hardship. Right? And I'm a product of that. And I think what's interwoven into the church is a lot of those scars. And so I think what's really encouraging now is that we get to set the tone for the next generation, and we get to set the tone for what's to come and what God is doing. Even though, you know, our generation may have stepped away or strayed or gotten confused, it's like I feel this sense of the Holy Spirit bringing us back to be like, okay, it's time, like, we've had these maybe, you know, two, three, four decades where it was really confusing as a korean church, but, okay, it's kind of settled and we're all kind of lining back up together. All right. And just is kind of like anybody listening that finds themselves in support based ministry. Any final words of encouragement for them? You know, I just want to share that fundraising is like life. It ebbs and flows, you know, and I mentioned how different it was being a first time person going overseas to being, you know, the second year, I didn't really even mention my third year, but it just ebbs and flows and it's like life. You're gonna have dark moments, you're gonna have highs, you're gonna have like, these really amazing, joyful, tearful moments. But God, isn't it all? And I think it's also, here's another analogy, that I thought of. It's like a dating relationship. Okay, tell me. So when you're first starting out, you're trying to woo, right? Your people who are enjoying your support team. You're trying to tell the stories and do all the things and, get them on board. You're trying to court them. To convince them to court you. And then you're in a relationship and it kind of like settles, right. You kind of find your way and then you may have a fight and then you may have this, and then you make up and it's so it's like this, like, relationship that it's just going to ebb and flow. And just to keep your eye forward and on what God's doing. And it's going to be hard, it's going to be good. And there's lots of resources out there. And you may not love it at times, but you'll come back and you'll realize, wow, I'm playing a key vital role in what God's doing in the world. Amen. So I know that we've already asked you our standard last question, and if you guys haven't heard her response, you need to go back to her episode, because it was, it was a really fun response. So I'm going to ask you something different. Okay. Oh, gosh. I don't think this is going to throw you too much, though. So for someone who's never had the experience of enjoying korean food, if they were to come to your home and sit at your table, what would you make them? Oh, my gosh. I would make them, korean short ribs, which is called kyribi in Korean, but it's marinated korean short ribs. So think of short rib strips marinated in this concoction of soy sauce and sesame oil and all these other goodness. and barbecuing it. It m is the most delicious thing you can have. It's like mana, but pairing that. So you typically grill it and then you cut it up into strips, take the bone off, and then you make little wraps with so rice, a piece of the short rib, some sauces, some other, like, kimchi and other veggies. And then you wrap it all up and you stuff it in one bite into your mouth. It's so delicious. Heather. It sounds so delicious. But pair that with kimchi pancake. So when you think of pancake, you think of breakfast items, probably, right, but it's more so a term just to kind of give you a visual of what it is. But it looks like a white pancake, and it's made with flour and kimchi and other, other ingredients, but it's just so good. It's savory, it's umami, it's kimchi, and it's so good. And it's an appetizer in the korean culture, but you can easily eat that with kirby. And then finally pair that with a bunch of side dishes, rice and some kimchi jige, which is kimchi stew. Okay. So kimchi is a staple ingredient in korean cuisine. Great. for gut health and just really, really delicious. It is an acquired taste. Okay. But when you pair all those flavors, especially with the marinated short rib, it is just another world. Oh, man. I might have to find a way to experience this. It sounds. Well, you need to come to my house. There we go. Okay, awesome. Well, jen, thank you so much for this conversation. I really feel like it was helpful for me. It sounds like it had some light bulb moments for you, which is awesome. You guys can look forward to hearing Jen back on the podcast for our next episode. And we'll see you then. It's not about the money. It's presented by provisio fundraising solutions, provisio equips, support based workers with flexible training, practical resources, and one on one coaching. Find out more@provisiofundraising.com.