It's Not About the Money: In Search of Grounded Fundraising
For us, ministry fundraising is the overflow of a deep sense of purpose. In “It’s Not About the Money”, we look past formulas, and explore both the nuance and the big picture of the fundraising journey. It’s not about tips, tricks, or clever phrasing. It’s about being grounded. Each episode focuses on an aspect of real life as a support-seeker. We hold space for both practice and theory. Join us as we explore the truth that, while the funding is essential, it’s not about the money.
It's Not About the Money: In Search of Grounded Fundraising
37. (Mini Series EP4) Dennis and Evangeline Chow
Join Heather and special co-host Jenn as they continue their mini-series focused on fundraising considerations from ethnically diverse backgrounds. In this episode, they are thrilled to speak with Dennis and Evangeline Chow, who are currently serving in the Philippines. The Chows share their unique journey from college days at Penn State to their impactful ministry at Faith Academy, where they support missionary kids. They delve into the challenges and joys of fundraising within Asian American communities, highlighting the cultural nuances and relational dynamics that shape their support-raising efforts. From overcoming initial fears to embracing a partnership development approach, Dennis and Evangeline offer invaluable insights and practical tips for thriving in support-based ministry.
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Welcome to it's not about the money, a podcast in search of grounded fundraising. I'm Heather, and together with my co host Andy, we look beyond the quick tips and formulas. Join us as we explore the nuance and complexity of ministry fundraising. If you want to thrive in partner development, not just survive it, this is the place for you. All right, welcome back to the show, everybody. So, as you know, we are in a mini series focused on fundraising considerations from ethnically diverse backgrounds. And today we are really excited to speak with Dennis and Evangeline Chao. They are currently in the Philippines, and we're excited to dig into their story a bit. But Jen, you know, the chaos. I would love to have you give us a bit more context for this conversation. Yes. So I know both Evangeline and Dennis from our undergraduate years. We all went to Penn State together. They're, a year underneath me, but we kind of just all hung around in the same circles. so I was part of more of the korean based church at, ah, Penn State, and they were also part of an asian american fellowship, and our fellowships kind of did a lot of the same things. People kind of bounced back and forth, from both fellowships. And so, Evangeline and I get really close, especially because we were both education majors, and then specifically down the road, we were both part of the same cohort to teach in a specific setting in northeast Philly. so that was really cool and special to share. And then Dennis. I didn't really know Dennis super well. I just know he was a part of the picture. They were best friends, and then later they were romantically involved. Obviously, they're married now. but you can just imagine we were all these college young, 19, 1820 somethings, just romping around at Penn State, loving Jesus, and then obviously going beyond that to do ministry. That's how I know the both of them. Wonderful. And Dennis and Evangeline, what would you guys add to that?
>> Evangeline:I would just say it's. It's really great to see where God has taken us that, you know, from our college years of loving Jesus to the professional space, to now even just watching Jen and Jonathan be parents and then, their story of overseas. And so I think the thread that continues to be strong throughout is our calling and love for Jesus, even though that taken us to different places sometimes first season overseas and then back to the home, to the US. But it's the type of thing where Jen and I might not talk and hang out for years and years, but then we get to hang out together for an hour to see each other, and we're like, oh, yeah, we're soul sisters. We speak the same language, still have the same heart.
>> Heather:Very cool. And so you guys are serving in the Philippines with your family. You've got two littles, and you're there with the organization. One challenge, I think, working specifically to minister to missionary kids. Is that right?
>> Dennis:That's correct. Yep. We work at a faith academy, and, so I teach 10th grade Bible, since 2016. I was also a high school chaplain for a number of years. And then Evangeline, she's a educational rock star, superstar, hall of famer. So she's done everything and plug holes everywhere, everywhere from elementary to middle school English to ell to coaching teachers to helping out with a special program. So she's. Did I miss anything? I feel like that.
>> Evangeline:No. I think, once again, our heart remains the same of supporting TCks and Mks. So when a lot of organizations are thinking about the grownups in the room, we're thinking about the kids from babies all the way up until they're 18 and graduating from high school. So, I would say for us, it's been a pleasure to be at one ministry the entire time. Like the current senior class, I've known them since second grade, taught them in fifth grade, again in middle school. Dennis taught them in 8th grade and in 10th grade. So with the revolving door that is cross cultural work, you say a lot of goodbyes, and you say a lot of hellos, but we're just so grateful that the Lord has allowed us to stay here, for this long, so that we do get to see kids grow up and then launch into university and beyond.
>> Heather:That is such, such a meaningful ministry. I mean, you know, having kiddos myself, I'm just so grateful that there are people like you guys in the world, especially helping kiddos, like you said, in a context where there's a lot of transition, a lot of change. So that's just so needed. So thank you. Okay, so let's. Let's dive into our conversation. I would love to just start by asking you guys, I know that, evangeline, you went to the Philippines, you preceded Dennis, and then somewhere in there, you guys got married, and then you both landed on the field. I'm curious, and you guys can speak to this as a couple or individually, what the initial fundraising season looked like for you guys.
>> Evangeline:I'm really grateful that I had two opportunities to do overseas trips when I was in university, so I got to go to Kenya twice with intervarsity. and then after I graduated, I worked stateside for a few years and got involved with a super missions minded church in Virginia, and even in that time, had the chance to go to Haiti and El Salvador. And so once I was able to really pull the trigger in terms of deciding to head overseas for a longer chunk of time. And my first time was two years. When I contacted people within my circles, whether they were churches or friends, this was not a brand new story for me. It had been a seven year journey up until that point. And so a lot of the people that I, wrote letters, letters to the first time or emailed or called, I think there was a lot of collective excitement of, we've known that you're moving towards this direction, and so we're so excited for you. Once we decided to become career missionaries in 2016, that also looks different because that was, like, a much bigger budget thinking, about things like retirement and all of these other larger costs of, like, establishing a home in another country. Ah. So I think those were some of the differences for us.
>> Dennis:Yeah, I remember I was a little nervous going into, I think for me, because my experience was, like, in high school, short term missions, you write a letter, send it to friends, family, relatives, and then just, like, wait and see. But that's like raising, like$200 for a trip, maybe at most. For me, it was like 800, maybe. whereas this was, like, you're raising, like, in the thousands monthly, and, like, you're. I don't know. I think it's different when you're asking as a kid to, like, relatives and parents. Like, it's like, they're like.
>> Evangeline:It's like a school fundraiser thing.
>> Dennis:Yeah. Whereas, like, now, like, you're asking people of your age or, like, others to, like, give, and I think that's just a different feeling. So I remember I was a little bit. A little bit nervous, especially about the work going into it. we were quite busy in that season. She has climbed back from the Philippines. She was working as a mobilizer, I was working as a pastor, I was going through ordination. and then on top of that, we're joining a new organization, and we're a support raising. So I think I was nervous about the work to go into that. It's uncertain of how long it take, but I think I was also quietly confident that God most clearly definitely was pointing us and leading us to go back to the Philippines. and so my thought was, if God is clearly leading us to go back to the Philippines, he will most definitely care for us, with our support, it's just a matter of how long he'll take.
>> Evangeline:And I know that for me, because we are 100% supported by our communities back in North America. Like, our school doesn't pay us a salary, though now they do offer housing stipend, but they didn't offer that when I first, like, for the first six years that we were here. And so I think for me, it was just understanding that this is what it takes to serve in the ministry that God has called me to. And so it wasn't necessarily my favorite, like, my first choice, but I also wasn't a, against it. And I think just that openness, allowed me to just see God at work. Like, he just blew me away. Because for my first two year term, the timeline was that I was accepted by my first organization, which was teach beyond in March, and then I was already at training in June and on the field by July. And so it was just this, like, incredible whirlwind, whirlwind of contacting people. Like, meanwhile, I'm still teaching also. So it is like a very intense season. But because I think we are also friends, we also have peers within asian american circles that also support race too, for their roles of ministry. It wasn't, a huge surprise to us. I think we knew that this is what we were getting ourselves into. God was so kind in being able to say yes to us quickly so that we could get to the field faster. and I know that that's not always the case for everyone, but that happened to be the case in our story. Yeah.
>> Heather:And speak to some of the training that you both received, either individually or together. and you can speak to those, like, shorter term trips into when you became career missionaries. Ah, speak to some of the training that you've received along the way.
>> Evangeline:So I received very little training. It was like, essentially a template, like a template for a letter and then a few articles on, the biblical basis of support raising. And I know that a lot of organizations, like, recommend a book. but it was very like, you do this on your own time and not so much accountability in that way. our second time around, we went through our organization, outsourced us to Taylor fundraising. So that was like very side by side. We met with our person, yeah, we met with our person once a week, like spreadsheets, goals. I think we rehearsed our, we rehearsed our phone call script. Probably like 10 hours of work, went into that for three minute blurb or something. Like that. So it was almost, it was, it was just a completely different way, or not different way, but like a, much more intense way of doing it, but very systematic. Yeah, I. We did appreciate that. There were moments where we're like, wow, this is like, kind of a lot, but I just thought, they're the experts. Why don't we learn from them and then pick and choose what works best in our context, especially the asian american one.
>> Dennis:I think I appreciate the, the strategy that went into it, especially for someone, like, for us, we don't have experience, life experience. This is exactly what you do for support, raising or building partnerships. So I appreciate the strategy they went to. For example, she had us, write a support letter that you emailed out to people, and at the end of it you put something about, if you're interested in hearing more, like, I would love to set up a phone call so that it filters writing out people who just could. I mean, maybe they want to know about the ministry, but, like, maybe they don't. And so the people that you actually do call are those who are actually interested in possibly supporting you, and that sets you up for a little more success. And, I remember she had us, list out everyone that we could possibly reach out to and then put them in different waves or different groupings as to who to reach out to first as a priorities, having goals. I remember, like, we had, like, by this month, like, the total amount that we need to raise is blank amount. And so by this month, let's see if we can have this amount raised. This amount of raising, you're looking to go by this month. So if we want to get this amount and you need to do this. And so I really appreciate having someone who has seen the different types of support raising, needed, the different, scenarios, different backgrounds, and was able to walk us through it. That was very helpful.
>> Evangeline:Yeah. And I think that's something that you can't get from reading a book. Like, the book is helpful and there's a lot of great ones, like the God ask and different things like that. But someone who has done it themselves because our coach had served overseas before in Vietnam, so they can share their personal story. but also someone who, when you're down or like, you know, have your questions, I think it's so personalized that that was really helpful also.
>> Dennis:She was very encouraging, super encouraging. Jenny Carr. Jenny Carr, if you're listening, you're amazing.
>> Evangeline:You know her.
>> Dennis:She was just very, like, very, very encouraging. I think there were a few moments where we were like, my gosh, are we going to raise all this money in, like, this? Of course God's raising it, but in our minds, we're like, how's this going to get raised? I think about it in terms of, like, sleep training. You can go one of two routes, but baby sleeping and all that, or potty training. so we did a sleep training thing for our kids where we bought a program, and they have videos, and they have this whole document what to do. And it's all the same information you can find online at various websites.
>> Evangeline:So you pay for the. You pay for the convenience and the videos.
>> Dennis:Like, was the lady the emotional? And we're like, we really need this encouragement. So I think it's the same thing with, like, the. The coaching aspect and at least having someone who walks alongside of you of, like, here's information, here's how you do it, but, like, you'll be okay. Or like, yeah, you're doing well. Like, it's this setback or this challenge is not unexpected. And so I think all of those were really both the training and how it was helpful for us.
>> Heather:Was the program taking care of babies?
>> Evangeline:Yes, it was.
>> Heather:Yeah, she's great. That, that saved our bacon with our force.
>> Dennis:Yes. We did it with both our kids, and they. The night mostly, unless they're sick.
>> Heather:Yeah, we love that. I love it. Well, it sounds like you guys got a multitude of training materials, but this specifically, this latter, portion was very strategic, very, very supportive. What were some obstacles that you guys found along the way? Whether it was, finding those partnerships and having those conversations or even internally, what were some obstacles?
>> Dennis:I think one was the direct ask. That's what we. It's, for me, growing up, learning. I grew up in a. So I'm chinese american. but I grew up in a very. In a caucasian church. And so when we did our mission strips, it was like you asked directly, like, would you be willing to support us? Blank amount a month for this trip. and for us, we do have, relationships in multiple ethnic groups, but, like, our main group is Asians. for example, the church that I was an associate pastor, that was chinese, and I served in the english congregation, but they're still Chinese Americans. So the direct ask is very, what's the right way of putting this?
>> Evangeline:It's like, too, is it abrasive?
>> Dennis:Would that be the right word?
>> Evangeline:Like, it's the idea that you can't. You'll get the social. Yes. Even though internally the person's uncomfortable. And so Dennis and I are very confident people. You know, like, he's trained as a pastor, I'm trained as a teacher. I don't think we have any problem of being direct and, like, clearly communicating our needs and our wishes. I think that for us, it was more of, like, is there another way than just, like, cold calling or asking, would you be willing to support me 100 a month? And then, like, literally in the script, it says pause. You like, pause and look at them.
>> Dennis:If you're coming from asian background, you're like, that's awkward. That's, like, super awkward.
>> Evangeline:Like, you wouldn't even. You wouldn't ask that for other things. But. So I think that was definitely an obstacle. So we were. We were a little bit older when we first went overseas, so we had, like, worked for a few years. So our peer group, like, they had salaries and things like that. but I think it's still the idea of. I think there's still sometimes that sense of, like, I. I have a degree in this. it's the whole idea that the idol of, like, comfort as well as, control, I think that was really hard for me to say. Like, why am I leaving the stable job that I have in Virginia to do this? Where. And I say this as a pastor's kid? And Dennis's parents are in ministry, too. We've seen how God has taken care of our parents already. so we already have that faith in us and in our family history, but it's still hard to do it yourself, too. And so it's like, okay, could I figure out something else? And so I think it was those, like, mental barriers, but that has really changed our hearts. Like, we love support racing. It's really relationship building for us. It helps us to keep in touch with friends. We really see our support team as, like, we were reflecting on even the people on our list. Like, some have known us since birth, and most have known us for ten, you know, 16 plus years. So it's. These are people that we would send Christmas cards to even if they weren't on our support team, because that friendship relationship is there. And so I think in that way, the obstacle of, like, asking, I would say, actually, the positive side is that we find that the people who are on our team actually just treat us like family. Whether it's our, trip, they treat us like family. They love us like family. And for them to support our ministry like, they've seen us, as in our, like, dating stage to be newlyweds to now being young parents from the hard times of being overseas and, like, you know, the heat, typhoon season, like, all of the cross cultural stuff to now us being more veterans. This is my 11th school year here. and so it's. Yeah, I would say that God has shifted. Shifted some of those obstacles into things that didn't. That just kind of made us trust him more, and then he resolved it.
>> Dennis:I remember one obstacle, that's probably very specific for me. So, we had dated. She had gone overseas, to the Philippines to teach. I was pastoring in New York City. So once we got past the whole, we're going to go to the. We're getting married, we're going to go to the Philippines, and I'm going to step down. I was very, I don't know if you remember this. I was hesitant to ask the church for support, and I think because. So I had a really good relationship with the church, and the church members. I think I was hesitant because I did not want church members to feel like they needed to support me out of. What's the right word. I'm thinking Guanxi, the relationship. Like, I'm their pastor, so they need to support me, or I didn't want there to be any, like, I don't know why I thought this. Any manipulation. Like, I'm their pastor, like, would you support me? And like, oh, yes, we need support. but I forget when maybe was one of the board members was like, hey, are you gonna come, one of the sunnies, are you gonna speak about going to the Philippines and history and how we can support you? It was something to that effect. I was like, yeah, I guess so I can. Yeah, sure. and I remember people coming up and just talking to us after just a few here and there, saying how they want to support us. Like, how can we support you? Some emailing us later, I guess, like, it was very clear that, like, at least for those who are similar in my position, like, you put it out there and you let God work in people's hearts. of course, you watch the way you say it and the way you present it, but, I think we were very touched that, yeah, people want to support us, even though it's hard. We had a great relationship and we are leaving the church. People still want it. Support us in what we were doing.
>> Evangeline:Yeah.
>> Heather:it's interesting because what I heard in both of your responses was just this acknowledgement that within the cultural context that you were inviting people into partnership, it almost felt like you weren't free to invite them into partnership because it felt like there was some sense of obligation out of, you know, you said, I think, evangeline, you said that people would say yes, but you weren't sure whether that was kind of to honor you or whether that was because they felt like the Lord was prompting them into partnership. And it sounds like maybe what you said about the church was kind of a similar dynamic where you wanted them to be able to respond out of a place of, yes, we want to be part of this with you as opposed to a place of obligation, or you're a leader, and so we feel compelled. Is that fear?
>> Dennis:Yeah, I think. Yes.
>> Evangeline:I think it's also, like. I think, for me, I also wanted to let people know that even if they didn't support me in this, that our friendship and our relationship wouldn't be affected by it. so that it wouldn't be, like, awkward. I think that was the main thing for us. And still to,
>> Dennis:That's why the direct ass is so. I don't know if deadly is the right word, but that's why the direct ass is so hard in, I think, asian context, because it's all about relationships. And so, if I'm asking you directly, m I need to raise$2,000 a month to get on the field, and I need to raise 20 supporters of$100 each. And, when I raise them all, I can go in the field. Will you be, willing to support me? $100 a month? Pause. Wait. Let them speak. Like, that puts the other person on the spot, and then they. The person you're talking to, then they feel awkward, and, like, they feel like, I got to say something like, I don't want. I don't know if. Like, maybe they don't know, or maybe they do know. Maybe they aren't in a place to support you. They just want to pray for you, or they want to hear the ministry, then. But they can't say directly, like, no, I do not want to support you because of this. Then it's like, it's like those. Like, I don't know, those things where, like, hey, you can save a child if you give$5. Like, I don't want to save a child. Like, it's just very awkward. Like, how do you say that to a friend? and then there's the relationship that's, like, potentially awkward. So I think that's why the director asked.
>> Evangeline:So, one of. So one thing that was super helpful to us, because when we brought this up with, our organization that was training us with this. Like, they didn't necessarily have a lot of resources. And also, our. Our organization is in Colorado, and it's not very diverse, in terms of those of us who serve overseas. And so we actually ended up connecting with other friends that we have who are chinese american, serving in other ministries that are in similar ways. And, it was actually campus ah, crusades epic, which is for Asian Americans, a whole separate MPD booklet, that kind of talks about what is it look like to raise support and more importantly, like, build relationships and build teams. And so we came up with what it was like a modified asian ask. And so it went like this. So it's like, it's an indirect ask, but you're still asking and you're still putting the need out there. And so it's, on average, people partner with us from $50 to $150 a month. Would you be willing to prayerfully consider joining our support team? and so it was like that, where it's like, we gave an average, and then we said, like, would you be willing to prayerfully consider? So that after that, we just said, we'll follow up with you in a few weeks after you've had a chance to think about it or talk about it with your spouse. And so it still gave. It still communicated the essential information. It just was a softer way of doing that. so it wasn't like hiding that we were raising support or hiding the amount that we were hoping to ask for. It just, was a saving face way.
>> Dennis:And I think it's good because if you're being asked by someone else if you'd be willing to support them, it helps to know what is. The agents don't like to stick out, I think. And so it helps to know what's typical. Like, I don't know, is 500 a lot if you're more well off or. I don't know. I can only afford ten. Like, is that too little? Like, I don't want to be seen as stingy because, like, I don't want to be seen by my friend as stingy and, like, have that relationship, like, weird. And so I think it was very helpful to have the phrase of, like, you know, those who support us or those who have typically been, partnering with us partner anywhere between, like, 50 to 150. Or they give about. About on average, like, a. Then we put in that phrase of. Or whatever is significant to them.
>> Evangeline:Yeah.
>> Dennis:And that gives. That gives the out of, like, oh, gosh, one hundred's a lot, but I don't know, like, whatever significant to me. I can still get $10 a month. Like, that fits in my budget and that still maintains the relationship and still shows, like, I would love you to join my team and the other person for them said, like, I would love to be part of the team and give what I can. and I think that finding out about the quote unquote asian ask from our friend who worked at, crew, like, that was super helpful. And we, I think we use that.
>> Evangeline:We still use that and we still.
>> Dennis:Use that if we. For the, supportive reason we do.
>> Evangeline:I think another nuanced thing that was, different was that we were actually told by one of our chinese churches, like, don't contact individuals within the congregation, because they really wanted to give it as like a group gift. And so they would say, like, because I think our church has, like, a mission goal. Like, we want to give this much to missions. So that way they can. It's tied to the church family and not necessarily one family or a few individuals. And so for me, I, At first I was like, no, they're like, limiting us from contacting a bunch of people that I have really solid relationships with in that church. But I honored the church, leadership when they told us, like, we honored that. And they've continued to be, supporting.
>> Dennis:Us all throughout, I think, with that. Honoring the decision and leadership helps, at least in that one situation, because, one, the church decided to support us, two people still, people find a way. So I remember we went to visit to speak one time, like, one auntie came up, gave us an envelope, like, this is for you to support us, or like one of the. Just, another person from the church that was like, yeah, you need to go through the church, like, later on. They support us like, every once in a while, like, monthly. So I think if the church has a very strong, like, policy or direction, or they want to try the strategy, or they've, this is how they've always done it. I think honoring the leadership, and maintaining that relationship, which is very key in, eastern relations, eastern context, was necessary.
>> Evangeline:Yeah.
>> Heather:And I think what I heard in both of those examples was just really understanding the values of the people that you're speaking to. I think what I love about the asian ask is that it wasn't like totally reinventing the wheel. It was just understanding the value and making, making tweaks, you know, based on that. And then with the church, I think it's so important. And we had actually, we spoke with, the vp of church partnerships with pioneers on the podcast several months ago, and he was just highlighting that, you know, when you're going to approach a church, it's so important to understand what their value and what they're looking for as opposed to just kind of bringing your, kind of your agenda into that. So I think that that's really meaningful and especially, you know, in the context of, of the Asian Church, as you were saying. I think that's really helpful. I'm curious, you know, I know that you guys both came from families that were in ministry. I'm curious whether your, your families being in ministry lent this towards being a really positive experience and having their support.
>> Dennis:As you went of support raising or going on the field or both.
>> Heather:Good clarification, maybe support raising.
>> Dennis:My parents are, we're very big on us being independent and them not being overbearing. Like, you choose your way. And so I think they were very supportive. Since I was, young, like maybe high school, I had thoughts of, like, going to ministry and them, like, trying to caution me against ministry because they've been in ministry, they've seen how hard it is, and then them finally accepting, like, oh, yeah, he's really serious about this and going to ministry. So I think I've, I hit that already. And so when they found out that we were going to the field, I.
>> Evangeline:Think they were going to, I think for my parents, because they have many friends that have served overseas. My mom and dad met in seminary in Louisville, Kentucky. So, like, their peer group either became like pastors or missionaries. the support raising side of things was like stretching their faith, but they've seen it done all the time, and they've also seen how God has taken care of our family. I feel like other things, like me being single headed overseas, being their only doctor, like, all of a sudden in Asia, like, they were more m worried that I was never going to get married. God will provide the money, those husband. but I do. I think that Dennis and I also had to tread really lightly with some of the church relationships as well as like, the aunties and uncles, because we recognize that a number of the churches that partner with us, my dad used to be the pastor there, and so that's the only way we have the connection to our seven. So I think out of our seven churches, my father has been the pastor for four of them. And so, like, but these churches also partnered with me when I went on church admissions trips and, like, other things like that. And so I don't think it's necessarily like an obligation sends in that way, it's more of like, oh, we trust this person. Like, this person's, like, vetted by the, they've been involved in the church. Like, one of those churches I grew up in, it was my childhood church. but in that way, I think we also hold the pressure of, like, we're representing our mom and dad to, like, so much more on both sides of the family. And so I think we hold that in a healthy way, like, in a healthy way of being, like, well, we do want to be good representatives of our parents, but we're also human and, like, we have missteps and we also have our own story. and so I would, I would say that, yeah, it's, it's the idea of, I think we've felt very loved and supported by our asian american community. And, one huge praise for us is that we've always been 100% or higher, year after year after year. Like, I know for a lot of people, the longer you stay on the field, the harder it is for your support. We've had other friends who just understand inflation and then they continue to increase every three years or something, or churches that, And so once you have the trust of the community and the ability to show, like, I'm in this for the long haul, I really think people will partner with us indefinitely unless something major happens, or unless, like, there's a major breakdown in relationship. But we've been so fortunate and blessed that way, that support raising for us is something more of just, like, reconnecting with friends and maintaining relationships, it's not something that is too much of a burden for us. We write our monthly newsletter updates, we send Christmas cards, we do visits when we're going home, you know, and even recognizing that it's a reciprocal relationship. And so if there's any opportunity for us to support our team, like, one of our friends who is on our support team is running a marathon coming up in the spring, and we're able to support her in that way so that people know that our friendship with them, us doing ministry together, it's more than just the fact that they support us $50 a month, and the only time they hear from the chows is if we're asking for more money. I think that would be us not being faithful stewards with the people that God's placed in our lives.
>> Heather:And I was going to say that I feel when I just take a glimpse of the people in my network who are in ministry or who are missionaries, I would say that that sets you guys apart. because Evangeline, dentist, you guys have done a phenomenal job over the years with your emails and support letters. And also, just like we talked about, the guanxi, the relationship, the maintaining of that. and part of that, of course, is our asian upbringing. But also, I think, just naturally, evangeline, Dennis, you guys have just a heart and a gift for that, and you do it really, really, really well. And I think oftentimes people do think when I'm support raising, I need to ask. I need to ask. And of course, like, sometimes people only hear from the missionary, from the ministry mindset of when I need. But I love your heart of saying it's a back and forth. I want to support you, too. I want to know what's going on with your life. And you do that really, really well.
>> Evangeline:Yeah.
>> Dennis:One of the things that I think was very helpful for us when we were being trained by Taylor was the idea of partnership development, not just support raising. Like, you are someone that I am using to raise money. it's the idea, like, you are someone that I'm inviting to partner with me and me with you. Of course, there's the money aspect of it. And of course, we're all familiar with the spiritual. Like, can you pray for certain things? Those, are big, but we found other ways that we are able to live out the idea of, like, partnership development. so, for example, like, Evangeline does a good job if anyone is listening, and they're part of our ministry Facebook group. Like, they know that evangeline posts a lot about our lives and just give. Gives regular updates. Like, this is what's going on in our family. We're struggling with, like, sickness or, like, the kids do this and, like, that we're doing this. And it helps people see what life is. Like. it helps them to see, like, we do not walk on water, that we do not, like. Like, break bread and feed 10,000 people with one bread. Like, we are not, like, spiritual christian superstar angels. Like, we are like everyone else. Like, it's just like, God has brought us to a different place. And I think that helps in terms of, like, just we. They are partnering with us and seeing life here, but also other ways. Like, for example, we do a year end giving project every year, around, I think, thanksgiving, and then till the end of the. The calendar year. Each year, we try to highlight different ministries that are going on, around us. so, for example, this year we are highlighting, Project Eden, which is a girls home that, one of our friends here runs, another year. We highlighted some of the chinese students, who are coming to faith academy, and just some of their financial needs or even, we have a lot of filipino students, students, who are children of pastors and, seminary students here in the Philippines. They come to our school, too, but they also have, financial struggles. And so we've been able to do, like, highlight different groups through our networks and all our partners, they hear about the various smaller ministries that they might not normally hear. I mean, there's always big ministries and big events, and maybe some go to urbana or other things, and they hear all the big things that are happening, like people and ministries that are bringing tens of thousands to the Lord. And so we get to highlight and show them, like, small things.
>> Evangeline:Yeah, it's almost a treat to support raise for things that are not, like, our main account because it all goes to a special project fund where all of that goes to that ministry. And it just allows us to share about the amazing things that God is doing here. so we really see ourselves as a conduit that way. We're also a field sharing. All of our funds get pooled together. And so we have teammates who are nationals, and so the surplus in our accounts goes to overflow to our national teammates.
>> Heather:Very cool.
>> Evangeline:and so I think in that way, it actually allows for us to be generous towards other people. Like, yeah, so many reciprocal relationships where we're supporting friends who are also supporting us. And I find that, like, in terms of strategy or whatever you might think, like, okay, who do I contact who is making this many figures or like, this and that. And I think God has always surprised us that our most faithful or the people that actually truly desire relationship. It doesn't matter if it's $10 or 75, whether it's one year or. They've supported me now for eleven. I think for us, we're just always excited to share what God is doing here. And we really put an emphasis on prayer, too, because with COVID and, like, job things, or we had people partner with us when they were, like, child free, and now they have multiple kids and, like, expenses are different, and so. Or they've, gone down to one income and they've told us, like, shifts in that, and we've always thanked them and just said thank you for your resources and the ways in which God, like, has led you towards. And we're so grateful that you were with us for seven years or eight years. And I hope you know that, like, we continue to care for you in the future and be praying for us. Because I think the longer that we're here, like, our reasons for what makes things hard, it's like, not support at all. It's like the day to day living here. It's the, raising our kids cross culturally that way. Truly sharing. Pray for us and pray for our team to have healthy dynamics and praying for those things. So that, while it may have first started out with, like, a financial partnership for some of these people, we hope that along the way, they get a taste of what God is doing in Asia here, as well as just like, that, they get to know our family. Because another thing that people told us was, like, they might not really care about MK's or tcKs, but they care about you. Like, yeah, the people that are supporting us, but they care about us and they trust us. And it's the whole idea of, like, okay, we trust the chows. We know them, and we believe that God is going to. So they don't necessarily, like, we're faithful with our, like, receipts or, you know, like, doing what we say we're doing here. but I think what it comes down to is that a lot of our supporters, they say, like, yeah, we don't, like, read all of your updates, but we know that you're still sending them. Like. Like, we're grateful for that. but I think. Yeah, I think that, I know that for us, one thing that has been a huge encouragement for us, it's just the times that we do get to connect with our other asian friends who are in the same boat as us. because when we worry about things like the future of, like, well, we have enough to send our kids to college or, like, when we have these big ticket items that are these unexpected expenses, like, we were on home assignment in 2020 to 2021, and the entire world was still on lockdown here in Asia for another two years after we returned. And our plane tickets were how much?
>> Dennis:5000 plus.
>> Evangeline:Yeah, for a whole family. So it was like two of us.
>> Dennis:And Lincoln was like a lap baby, but it was.
>> Evangeline:It was more than double of what we needed. And we had already used up all the funds and our travel expenses for our, furlough time. And so we chatted with another friend and he said, you just email your support team and share them. And Dennis and I were talking about this last night, and he was like, I didn't even want to, like, write the full amount, but you're like, just write it. Like, what's the worst.
>> Dennis:I think we did, like, the direct ask of, like, we are trying to get back to the Philippines. Prices are much higher than we anticipated. We don't have the funds. If m you're interested in support and, like, helping, like, here's how to give. And my feeling of, like, the Asian asked or, like, to lower the pressure was like, yeah, supporting us. Like, contact us and we can give you. She's like, no, no.
>> Evangeline:I'm like, here's the link to give.
>> Dennis:It out there and, like, give to them. Which was. It was really good because I remember the first day after we sent that, we got about, like, $800. I'm like, oh, wow. This is. Wow. God, they came through. This is like, wow. And, then, like, two days later was like, more came in, and then three days later, it was like a flood to where we got, like, a, way more than we actually really needed.
>> Evangeline:From that. We're, like, $10,000 came in for our flight. We need it.
>> Heather:My word.
>> Evangeline:Yeah.
>> Dennis:So that's one of those moments where it's like, yeah, ask and, like, God work.
>> Evangeline:Yeah.
>> Heather:Ah.
>> Evangeline:It's just affirming that for us, like, in times where we worry about money, I think it's. I think that's just our immigrant upbringing. Like, we're super frugal people, but also, like, you know, we have iPhones and Apple products because they last us longer overseas security is like, you know, like, it's easier to do imessage with family. All of those things. With those things. Sometimes I'm just. I think. I think the whole idea behind it is that God says, like, I've given you this. Be a faithful steward with it. And I don't know how long we'll be in the season, wherever we're raising support, or we, receive our salary in that way. But it's absolutely helped me to trust God with so many more things. Like, he's taken care of our day to day life. he's taken care of our children. He gives us more than enough to be generous towards other people, especially generous towards nationals here. so that as long as God has us a part of this ministry, I know that without a doubt he'll be taking care of us. So I think that, like, I started out only on a two year commitment, and here I still am, like, buried and raising kids overseas. I think if I had initially known, like, Evie, you're gonna be in the Philippines for eleven years, plus, like, all of that on zero salary from the school and all, it's just too scary of a thing. But I think as we take small steps of trusting the Lord, like, when we look back and see his faithfulness, it's. I just know that he has taken care of us and will continue to.
>> Heather:Take care of us.
>> Evangeline:And so when I think about other Asian Americans who are want to save face and, like, not ask and this and that, I think I just see it as an exercise of trusting the Lord. And God answers it in different ways. Some of our friends are doing more, roles where one is working full time, for a us company, but here. And that funds their, their ministry here. I think God is so creative in different ways and.
>> Dennis:Yeah. so you're talking about how, like, I think as Asian Americans, we're afraid to ask. I think we're afraid to come across as begging or we feel like. It's like, And I don't know why, but, like, in that moment, like, in the moment, like, right now, my thought was, or the image that came to mind is, like, if you are being called to overseas or some ministry where you need to raise support, like, you are being called to the greatest thing in the universe, you're not begging money for people to help you with, like, a side job. you were inviting them to come alongside of you, whatever way God has put in their heart to, like, be a part of this amazing ministry opportunity, whatever that is. And so I think for us as agents, like, we need to get over the idea. Like, I'm begging for my livelihood, but no, like, you are, God has called you to something amazing and you are. You're just inviting people. And if they say no, well, you know, maybe God has called them something else where they just don't see the big picture. You move on to the next. I think that's. I think as Asian Americans, the mindset we ought to have.
>> Heather:Yeah. Wow, you guys, I am just so encouraged I can stay here for another hour listening to you speak and of the stories of provision and how God has provided through the years and just your heart through it all. and I love even just like, the little nuggets of speaking from the asian american context and how you've continued to nurture, all that you've learned along the way and even now. So just as we bring this conversation to a close, in general, like, how would you encourage our listeners as they continue to persevere, even in your sense, like, how would you speak to yourself? How would you encourage our listeners and yourselves to persevere in your support based ministry?
>> Evangeline:I think for me, just the idea that God is a God of abundance and not scarcity. And that's true in all areas of our life, like, not just finances. And that, you know, there's, there's more than enough for everyone in God's kingdom. Whereas, like, we feel like we need to, like, protect ourselves. We need to, you know, hoard up things so that we can feel secure or be in control of things. And I would just say to some, someone that if God is calling you to take a step of faith financially, it's of course not going to be easy. It's going to feel counterintuitive to everything you've ever done, especially those of us who, like, had jobs since high school, you know, like, saved things in the piggy bank where, you know, we're, like, looking at investments or various things. But, you know, if we can trust God with our salvation, we can absolutely trust him with our livelihood as well as our children. And being on the other side here. Here. Like, we work at a school where we get to serve over 500 plus students, where the majority of them, their parents, are in ministries like orphan care, fighting, sex trafficking, medical missions, where God is sustaining their families, too. And so just the idea behind that is that trusting God with this, he's going to surprise us in the best ways, probably from a lot of unexpected people. but to also know that if we do experience disappointment, like, you know, you were hoping that someone really would, or you were counting on a relationship to that, to support you in that way, that I think God also understands our disappointments that way, too, but that he'll always be bringing in new people and new possibilities, and so. So, I would just say, you know, hold fast to your call and God will provide. And I feel like we've had so many close call moments where we're like, I don't. I really don't think this is going to work. I've tried everything that I can. And in those moments of, like, complete surrender, like, even Dennis and I, as we were in our long distance relationship, I was serving here, so happy. He was serving in the states that, pastoring in that church, so happy. But we knew that we loved each other. And it's like, in what world would we even be able to be on the same continent? And we always pray through this first from second chronicles. It's like we don't know what to do, but our eyes are on you, Lord. And that whole idea that, like, we can trust God for providing all of the resources or direction for our future.
>> Heather:Amen.
>> Dennis:I think I would probably say two things. One, not to give in to fear. I think it's very easy to have voices of fear, whether that's from ourselves or from Satan trying to distract us or pull us down. Like, I remember we once went to, we once traveled to go to a church by train. And when we got there, we had asked my brother, to rent a car for us from a car dealership, and he shows up to pick us up from the train station in a Mercedes Benz.
>> Evangeline:And we're like, which is our rental?
>> Dennis:Why is this the rental car? Like, that's all they had. Like, they have some, like, agreement and that's all they had. And so for the whole weekend, we're like, we're going to go to this church to ask m for money. Essentially, we don't have mercedes car.
>> Evangeline:But this was so the whole time.
>> Dennis:We were like, oh, gosh, this is terrible. Like, why would, like, a lot of fear of, like, instant relationship and, like, you don't want to come across like, I need money and here I am in a Mercedes. Like, so there's a lot of fear. And I think it's just a reminder. And that's, I mean, that church became one of our biggest supporters. It's just a reminder. There's always going to be fear of anything and everything. But, once again, like, if God's called you to this, like, I mean, who can really stand against it? Like, God, God knows your need. God knows what, what he will provide. And, whatever he'll provide, we can trust in that. And our job is to be faithful in going and just inviting people to partner with us. Another, thing I would say, is to lean on the Holy Spirit on this and being wise. If you are an asian American and you're looking to go into a ministry where you need to raise support, it's challenging, because, say, for example, like, your parents don't want you to go. So on one hand you want to honor your parents. On the other hand, the words of Jesus, of the whole, like, you know, no one who has, what left their father or mother, brother, sisters, like, will not be, worthy of me. Like, the whole idea, like, you need to leave your family in order compared to me, it's like, how do you hold those two intentions? And so it's hard, but leaning, on the spirit daily, praying for wisdom, wisdom for, various things. Like, for example, if you're being trained to raise support and something just doesn't feel right, like, I don't know. I don't think I should be asking them directly. Will you give me $100 a month? Pause, listen, stare at them, then listen to the spirit on that wisdom of. How do you modify. How do you honor a church when you really have a lot of people there that you want to connect with, but just seems like a roadblock. Like, that would be my big recommendation. Lean on the Holy spirit, pray for wisdom, and allow the holy spirit to lead you, man.
>> Heather:So good. So good. Yeah, so good. Okay, you guys, we have one more question, and it's our standard question that we ask all of our guests as we close out. So you have $10,000 that you've come into today, and you have to get rid of it. Hey, you can't keep it. You have to give it away.
>> Dennis:Let's get it.
>> Evangeline:Oh, okay. Okay, sure.
>> Heather:Yeah. You have $20,000?
>> Evangeline:Yeah.
>> Heather:Fair. so you have to give it away. Who and what do you give it to and why? Why?
>> Dennis:I already have one.
>> Heather:You.
>> Evangeline:Ah, go ahead. I still think it's.
>> Dennis:This is not a plug, but, it's just on my mind. Recently, there's a ministry here called hope alive. They are a, ah, pregnancy clinic in a lower income area just actually, like, five minutes away from us. and they do a fantastic job in ministering to the women in that community, in the area of pregnancy and birthing, and just, like, parenting them as parents, I guess. I don't know if that's cool, but, the cool thing that they're trying to do is they're trying to transition to being a hospital because they know it's like there's a baby. And in the Philippines, either. There's either public hospitals that are government run, that are just overwhelmed with needs, and I won't go into it. But then you can also go to the private hospitals, which are really well off, which for us as Americans is not as big of a deal, but for the average Filipino, you need to be well off to go to that. And there's nothing like in that area that, if a woman needs to go to the hospital for anything, like, they could get there easily. So a hope alive clinic is actually. They actually just got the funds to purchase land right beside them, but they're also looking for funds to build the hospital for the community. So I would probably give the 10,000 straight line.
>> Heather:Awesome.
>> Evangeline:Oh, this is. This is such a hard but really good question. I think I would give it towards all the areas that are experiencing war and conflicts. Right now, like Sudan, Gaza area, especially towards women and children there. I don't know what that would be like, whether it's Doctors without Borders. I think there's just amazing ways that God is at work that we don't necessarily see.
>> Heather:Yeah. Yeah.
>> Evangeline:Right. When we're just hearing the pain, but like, trusting that he's in that. But that's what I would give towards, because I feel like while here in the Philippines, I could give it towards so many other organizations. But, like, we're not in the middle of a humanitarian crisis right now as a country, like, we're not a first world country, but, like, people's lives are pretty steady here. But in those areas where, like, the world is imploding all around, I think that's what would be on my heart for today, man.
>> Heather:Both such wonderful answers and just such a picture of the heart of God, you know? Yes. Yeah. Caring for us in abundance, as you said. What a joy it's been, Dennis and evangeline, of just connecting and just for me personally, because you guys are dear, dear friends and just to continue to hear your heart, for your ministry and for just the world, and how encouraged I am just to know, you know, you've been on the field for eleven plus years and you're continuing your, Yeah, just. God bless you guys.
>> Evangeline:Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to, it's, it's been a great exercise for us to kind of reflect. And, Dennis was able to go back and like, read journal entries that he had made when we were court raising and even for us to think about God's faithfulness all through the year. So thank you for the opportunity.
>> Dennis:It was our pleasure.
>> Evangeline:Thanks for joining us.
>> Dennis:It's not about the money is presented by provisio fundraising solutions, provisio equips, support based workers with flexible training, practical resources and one on one coaching. Find out more@provisiofundraising.com.