38. (Mini Series EP 5) Jeremiah and Maysa Vaught

In this fifth episode of the mini-series, Heather and Jenn are excited to welcome Jeremiah Vaught, who, along with his wife Maysa, has been deeply involved in ministry and church planting in Chicago. Jeremiah shares his journey from the initial days of fundraising to planting a church in one of the most diverse zip codes in the nation. He discusses the cultural nuances of fundraising, the challenges of asking for support within different communities, and how their entrepreneurial ventures have supported their ministry. 

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Transcript

>> Heather: 0:05

Welcome to it's not about the money, a podcast in search of grounded fundraising. I'm Heather, and together with my co host Andy, we look beyond the quick tips and formulas. Join us as we explore the nuance and complexity of ministry fundraising. If you want to thrive in partner development, not just survive it, this is the place for you. Okay. Welcome back, everyone, to the show. We are currently in the middle of a, mini series looking at the different experiences that people can have dependent on the background that they're coming from and the culture that they're coming from. So today we have with us Jeremiah. Jen, I know that you know Jeremiah and his wife Mesa. I would love to let you give a bit more context for their story. Yes. So I'm a little sad Mason's not on the episode with us, but they have a sick kiddo at home today. So Jeremiah is a representation for their family. so my initial connection to the Vats, is to Mesa, who I went to school with, college with. We both went to Penn state. She was actually a senior when I was a freshman, and I, we went to the same church, and she was my first small group leader in college, and we really, really, really bonded. she truly became like an older sister figure to me. Essentially took care of me all through college, and then has just been a dear friend and sister since then. and then, of course, Jeremiah came into picture, and then I have seen them kind of sprinkled throughout. they're based in Chicago, outside of Chicago. And between my summers of being overseas and coming home between semesters, I would go see them since I was doing, my graduate studies at Wheaton College. So I would see both Mesa and Jeremiah before kiddos. And now they have two, beautiful children. And the last time I saw them was about two plus years ago when I was pregnant with my son. And then Jeremiah and me said they both have amazing experiences in ministry, but they've also done fundraising, but also have planted churches or helped start churches, and so they've got just a lot of experience under their belts. Very cool. Thank you so much, Jen, for that. And with that, Jeremiah, what else do we need to know about you or your family?

>> Jeremiah: 2:16

Well, as it pertains to this podcast, my wife is Tye. she is one of very few people in her thai network, that are actual believers in Christ. that's important, as, we are helping people. we are also a, ah, church that planted in the neighborhood of Rogers park, that's in Chicago. It's the most diverse zip code in Chicago and probably the second or third most diverse zip code in the entire nation.

>> Heather: 2:48

Wow.

>> Jeremiah: 2:49

We have about 70 languages spoken at home. So in one respect, even though we are, one might say domestic missionaries, we are in an area where, you really can reach the nations. And in fact, one larger church in the city that has a location, in our neighborhood, actually has three locations come near our neighborhood. They've hired a new person that's intentionally focused on training up, people that are reached here to go back to their home countries. So that may, may be some, overlap between what you folks are doing and that part of my work as well. So just wanted to put that out there. So, yeah, I'm still the pastor of the church that I planted. You are correct. Plant other churches. And I, you know, I've coached church planners, I've evaluated, but I'm still the pastor of the church I've planted. I'm currently getting trained to be a church planning coach, on a larger scale. But, yeah, church planning is kind of what I, think I would say I'm most passionate about. Even though I'm still a church planning pastor. And, you know, even in my own church right now, I constantly tell my elders, I, I say, I think you could probably get a better pastor for your church and we should figure out ways to get me focused on planting again. But, that's not happened yet. But that's kind of just where I'm at currently speaking.

>> Heather: 4:10

And how did you meet? Mesa?

>> Jeremiah: 4:13

Yeah, so we met in Evanston, which is the, suburb just north of the city where we live. we were going to the same church, Evans to Bible fellowship. We kind of brushed shoulders a few times. We, were at a, lunch with a bunch of friends that were kind of mutual. About 18 or 20 of us were eating after a service one Sunday and I was just listening to her talk. And, basically I decided if I didn't ask her out that day, I would be mad at myself. And so, I did. And, you know, we're married. And now coming up in 14 years, March 13, that will be our anniversary.

>> Heather: 4:47

So and so. Did you both grow up in a north american context or did she grow up in Thailand?

>> Jeremiah: 4:54

She, was born in Chicago and then moved to Glenview and lived there her whole life. Glenview is a suburb of Chicago. And so, yeah, she's been, here her entire life. Her parents, migrated in the seventies.

>> Heather: 5:06

To Chicago.

>> Jeremiah: 5:07

Yep.

>> Heather: 5:08

Cool. My husband is from Chicago.

>> Jeremiah: 5:11

Awesome.

>> Heather: 5:11

Good place. Yeah. Yes, yes. So, Jeremiah m. Paint a picture. Let's start this conversation of just everything that you bring to the table as far as fundraising, church planting. Paint a picture for us for what that initial season of fundraising looked like for yourself and maybe how it has shifted even now, being with Mesa and raising a family.

>> Jeremiah: 5:33

okay, so we haven't intentionally raised funds in the way that you might conceive of it since probably the year 2013. Now, when you're a pastor of a church, you are, in one respect, constantly raising funds because you're constantly getting people to support the don't go in ministry of the church. but in 2010, 2011, when we were first starting to plant the church, we were going through some church, planning training in my, district I planted with the evangelical Free Church of America. Wanted to send me to a church plan or a, a fundraising training called people raising. I don't know if that's something you both are familiar with or not. They did not send me to that, for whatever reason, I don't know. but I was in a cohort with other church planners and they said, hey, don't worry about it if you haven't been able to make it. And I had two guys that were really good fundraisers. Basically give me like a 45 minutes spill on how to do it. I took what they offered me and went and raised, you know, I think externally, over the course of like, three years, ended up being about three, hundred,$50,000, you know, something like that. So, I don't know, that was pretty good, you know, not including some gifts from the denomination that was promised me for planting. So we, we did some decent fundraising. I, will say, just to put it out there, the vast majority of my fundraising came from the county. I grew up in western North Carolina, and was mostly older people, over 40 that really, pulled a heavy weight for our church planning for our fundraising, with the exception of a few buddies that are really close and a few people that were just, for whatever reason, were our age that, were already pretty successful and wanted just to get money, we didn't receive a lot of money from people in our peer group. So I'll put that out there as well, early, so that maybe that can spark some conversation.

>> Heather: 7:37

Yeah. So then, in that season that you're speaking of, mesa was already in the picture, correct?

>> Jeremiah: 7:42

Correct? Yep.

>> Heather: 7:43

Yes. and then you speak about your north Carolina, community supporting you in the demographic that you've spoken about. How was it for Mesa? as you guys ventured together in this and her like thai family. You mentioned she's the first believer in her family all, ah, that, how did that impact her being a part of it?

>> Jeremiah: 8:03

So we didn't ask for support for anybody that were unchurched, not, not christian or anything like that. So that meant a lot of the Chicago connections that she had for living here all those years was basically not a part of who we asked. we did ask a bunch of people in her network from Penn State and again that cut, they kind of fit in that demographic. I just spoke of mostly peers, people our age. So, so we went and had interviews and it just it wasn't as fruitful from the money came in perspective. It's always good to share what you're doing with people though, and have to pray for you.

>> Heather: 8:45

Yeah, I'm curious, you know, as we've had these conversations with people, we have learned that even for people that have grown up in North America, if their family was previously kind of primarily in a different cultural context, that they bring in some cultural values that make it a little bit difficult for them to ascribe to some of the basic fundraising principles that you'll hear out there, you know, making an appointment, making a phone call, giving a direct ask, things like that. And I know you said that you weren't really given training, but you had a couple of guys that came around you and said hey, here's some good, good ways to go about this. I'm wondering if those all felt reasonable to you, or if maybe for yourself or for Mesa, it felt like it kind of rubbed against a cultural value.

>> Jeremiah: 9:29

That, so that's, I get it, I get the question. And for again, Mesa's background, I couldn't speak to that, to tell you the truth. I, my suspicion is that largely some of our difficulty with who we were connecting with from Mesa's perspective was that they were in their twenties and people in their twenties have less expendable income and you know, give less and all that that we, you could probably go to now. as far as what you just said, the direct asks, I am from Appalachia originally, and that's important because it's a very, it is actually a different culture, than suburban North America. The city, it's very different, it's very different than lots of parts of the south even, and so especially you mentioned the direct piece of it. I, I think that people wanted to know what we were asking for. I think that was important, but I think they just wanted to hear it once and then move along, you know? they wanted to talk about it and there was, there were a few times, my memory is a little fuzzy on it, to tell, tell you the truth, where I could tell that, I was being encouraged to be incredibly direct, super professional on all of this. There was a little bit of, hey, you know, we remember when you were seven, running around the church like a crazy man, you know, had to set you aside. So there's this little, there's a little bit of, hey, just relax. Take yourself a little less seriously. Around us. Most of the people we were connecting with, I think would be designated second generation, and so they were more comfortable with the direct piece from my perspective, than, say, if we'd been interviewing their parents, maybe. I don't know. I'm simply speculating here, so I don't know the answer, to tell you the truth.

>> Heather: 11:20

And, I will let our listeners know that Mesa was going to join us for our conversation today, but she is otherwise engaged with one of their kiddos, so we're just really grateful that Jeremiah can be here representing both of them. Yes. So then in this season, Jeremiah, it sounds like your Appalachia family supported you a lot. How are you feeling through all of this with the direct asks and not. And just traversing all those cultural things from your point of view, how did you feel about it all?

>> Jeremiah: 11:47

Well, that wasn't that difficult for me, to tell you the truth. But since you mentioned Mesa, Mesa had a real struggle with it, generally speaking. We did like an eight, nine day trip, two, or three different times, different places. And especially in that time while I was in North Carolina, had so many connections, I would have four to five meetings lined up a day. And, that was a lot, just from an energy standpoint for her, but also just, the amount of vulnerability it took was a great deal. And at some point, I don't remember when, she, basically said, okay, you got this, you know. And, so as far as it goes, I did not at that particular juncture in my life, have a hard time asking for people for money for this, because I really believed in it, and I still do. Of course. I'm. I, think that there's a, in some sense, there's an advantage of being in your twenties and asking for money for ministry versus like, I'm in my forties now. People, especially if you're stateside, expect you to have gotten this under control or whatever, you know. but so I can't really say that I was super stressed out about it.

>> Heather: 13:05

Well, and it is interesting, you know, to just speak to what you just said about being stateside and maybe some of the expectations that come with that. Earlier this week we recorded with a guest that works with the navigators in domestic or, you know, the navigators are all over the world, but she has raised her support and coaches of, several people in the domestic context. And she was just speaking to how it really can be more difficult to raise support to live in North America because people do kind of expect, well, why don't you get a real job? Or how is that ministry a real job or something like that? So there can really be a lot of things to navigate when your ministry is in your home culture, for sure. How does living on support look like now or, you know, being in the church setting, even coaching others, compared to your initial season to now, like living out. I mean, what year is this for you guys?

>> Jeremiah: 13:58

Yeah, our church was planted in 2012, so we just had our 12th birthday. So not only did we start the church about three years in, me and my wife Mesa started a real estate business that she's just, taken and been, very successful with. And so in one respect, we are covered because of real estate. Our church is small. It's only about, a good Sunday, 50, 55 people. And a lot of those people aren't, aren't making a whole lot of money for different reasons. Students, some people have mental, illness, different issues that people face, refugee, immigrant situations. so we've never been a church that makes a whole lot of money and because of the business that we started and that going well, that means that there's not as much anxiety as maybe someone else in my position might feel, having a family of four. We bought a building, renovated it, and now the upstairs Airbnb. And that covers a lot of our costs. So a lot of things like that, that kind of help. so the entrepreneurial strand of things really helps. So we, when it comes to support raising, I have not made a direct ask for money, maybe since 20. Okay, actually, excuse me, I made a direct ask during COVID for some relief, for some, for some churches, and two churches came through with 6000,$7,000. We were basically, you know, in urban areas, you know, without a building, you're kind of at the mercy of whatever people decide. And we were kicked out of our space for four or five months, so we kind of got some emergency help there. So that's I asked for money then in 2020, but beyond that, 2013 is probably the last time I've asked for money directly, other than just say, hey, you know, on Sunday, give us, so let, you know, whatever version of that we say on Sunday morning, you know, and one of our members, actually, his dad and mom, decided just to give us $1,000 a month from a distance, you know, without being asked. So I say all that to say, you know, I don't do a whole lot of ongoing support raising that might be helpful to your, listeners.

>> Heather: 16:10

Well, but I do think what you said is really valuable, because it's true that in this space, we focus on individual fundraising, finding people to partner with you and your ministry. But I also think it's just really good to remember that's not always how God does it. Right? Like, I love that he prompted you guys to use your gifts to start a business, and that that business has supplemented and enabled your ministry to a group of people that might not otherwise be able to self support their church from their own means. And so I think that's really great to remember. You know, it's not like personal fundraising is the corner on how God funds his ministry. So that's really meaningful. Thank you for sharing that experience.

>> Jeremiah: 16:51

Absolutely.

>> Heather: 16:53

Well, it also sounds very unique because your congregation, it doesn't sound like the general makeup of these, like, mega churches or affluent communities. Like you said, your current, zip code is like the most diverse, and even your congregation, as small, you know, as it is. And that number is, I, don't think that's small. But, like, I feel like your ministry is impactful, and so that gives a different perspective on where the money is maybe coming in from or how you may be asking, depending on who your ministry is directed towards.

>> Jeremiah: 17:28

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I mean, even beyond the 50 people we have on Sunday morning, we do a service at a nursing home free of charge, for about 2025 folks on Sundays. So, again, that's a large group of people that just, you know, they're not, they're not paying, but we want to be able to do that there. And actually, we give, we try to give stipends to people that go over there and preach and do things like that from time to time. So, yeah, for sure, it's a very good posture, and mindset. If you're committed to whatever mission it is that you're on, you know what? You gotta, you gotta think about how to make the finances work, and that might mean starting a business and other options?

>> Heather: 18:14

Being wise with your gifts.

>> Jeremiah: 18:16

Yes, that's right.

>> Heather: 18:19

So on this series, one of the questions that we've kind of asked people is like, what worked well in your context and what didn't? And I heard you say earlier that in your context it felt a little dissonant for you to show up super professional and really polished. And the people you were talking to were like, hey, just like speak to me normally. I remember when you were a seven year old running around, so I kind of heard you say that in your context it maybe felt more appropriate to be more laid back. Are there any other, I guess, ways of approaching people that you found meaningful in your context?

>> Jeremiah: 18:54

Yes, and I came in with a perspective, I had a plan and I emphasized that's super important to do, but beyond that, you gotta, you do have to kind of think about the persons, that's across from you, what you know about them, what they value. It's really easy to take some of what I just said and see people as if they are, you know, money making machine for you or something like that. But the real, the real thing is you're looking for people to partner with you in your ministry and if you do that, you're probably going to try to understand them and what they care about a little bit. And so I think that's kind of just a general rule. Yeah, Appalachia is, again, it's very laid back, very familial. I've got, you know, my younger brother, my older brother, my mom and dad still live in the county I grew up in. My younger brother accidentally went on a date with like a fifth cousin one time. I mean, we are, you know, we are in an area where people don't leave, where you've got extended family members. And so there's just a real, you know, an authentic down home approach that you would want to take. Nobody's going to give you any significant money if they don't think that you actually are going to handle it well. So you got to have some level of a plan, some level of, hey, what I'm saying to you now, I'm taking seriously and I want you to as well. But you have to kind of cater that to what you know about the person and what, what that means for them, you know, so, but yeah, Appalachia, that's the specific context that we raised the most money in when it came to, again, our peers for mostly, you know, our college backgrounds. Because again, at the time we were 26, 27. I had just finished grad school, Mesa still had a lot of connection still from her undergrad days. So it's just, that that particular group of people, from a statistical perspective, they were not going to give a whole lot anyways. And we didn't know that at the time. But looking back, it's like, oh, okay, that makes sense. Like, why did, why did all these people 50 or older that don't have as much money as these people do now, in their thirties and forties, give us so much and they didn't give us as much money, something at the time, you know, and they, they're just starting lives.

>> Heather: 21:10

So, yeah, I was going to ask why you thought there was such a difference in your peers versus those that were older than you. Are you saying that maybe you guys didn't even approach your peers because you were wondering?

>> Jeremiah: 21:23

No, we had meetings, we just.

>> Heather: 21:24

Okay, got it, got it. Okay. And then Jeremiah, remind me. So Maze's family is also in Chicago, right? Her, like, immediate family?

>> Jeremiah: 21:31

Yeah, suburbs. They're in the suburbs of Chicago, correct. And actually, her sister lives in the city and with her family.

>> Heather: 21:37

Yes, I remember that. So it sounds like from her side in all of this. it was mostly like the Penn State crowd that I'm very also familiar with. But did it like, extend into, like, other thai networks or other, like, maybe even extended family for her? or was it mostly a focus on her, like, college peers?

>> Jeremiah: 21:59

Yeah, it's most because those were the believers that she knew. She knows of a few thai believers that are around Chicago. We know we encountered a young thai woman who was like 22 at the time, who had become a believer in South Carolina. But, you know, and she, she was on, she was actually helpful in getting a lot of people to pray, pray for us, but we didn't have a large connection with the thai community because, again, that. And now there's a lot going on in Thailand, in the northern part of the country right now in terms of conversions. there. I, was just watching thai tv with my in laws and noticed that at a funeral, a cross was up. Like, what's going on? Mother in law casually said, yeah, there are lots of people becoming christians in the northern part of Thailand right now. I mean, that's new, you know, that's new. Not something you experience stateside. very few thai people are Christians. we just went mostly to, people that were in her, her fellowship in college, and that was, again, a majority of korean background folks.

>> Heather: 23:04

So, yeah, with her family, were they accepting of this role? You guys were stepping into that required fundraising or did you get any pushback there?

>> Jeremiah: 23:12

I can't even really tell you how much, they knew what we were doing as far as how I was getting paid at the time. I mean, I was working at Starbucks and that was a, ah, concern. I was like, why, why are you marrying this guy who's working at Starbucks? Those are the things that are there. And so I don't think we got a lot of pushback per se, because we just didn't bring them into that part of our lives, to tell you the truth. M it probably would have been very stressful for everybody involved if we had.

>> Heather: 23:49

Hm. Because you anticipate that they would have, that would have been problematic for them?

>> Jeremiah: 23:55

Oh, for sure. I mean, well, they would have talked to Mesa about it for sure. Then we talked to Mesa about it for sure.

>> Heather: 24:04

It's a unique, I think, situation that Mesa is in, because as you mentioned, there aren't many thai believers. And even in, even being in Chicago, you can only probably count on both hands, it sounds like, of other Thai Americans. One hand, one hand. Yeah. Yeah. So it's an interesting context for Mesa to be in. but then also like, you know, I'm hearing you say that her family, they're not really looped in. but hearing from other guests that we've had, even if there's those like maybe language barriers, cultural barriers. I guess my question is, they know now, you know, all these years in what you're doing, do they ask questions or is that more of like.

>> Jeremiah: 24:46

A. I don't think they ever knew still, I would, I don't think they ever knew that we went around and asked a lot of people for money. I don't think that registered. They now they know that I'm supported by my church. so they got, they got a grasp of that. But how that works is not, you know, they don't worry as much about that as they did when we were in our twenties. But yeah, you know, that's not, that's not something that we necessarily kind of kept them from. It's just that at some point, okay, the money, we've got a church, the external support is decreasing, the internal support is increasing. We still get people that support us from the outside, but it's not something we've asked for. They just, some people still continue to give. but yeah, I know as far as looping our in laws in, you know, we haven't, we didn't intentionally exclude by any stretch of the imagination. We just didn't want to cause unnecessary stress. There was already enough.

>> Heather: 25:48

Yep. Yeah. Well, there's just so many dynamic pieces, you know, and we're, we're always talking about how it's just, it's not a formula. And I think that it just does come down to, understanding your families, understanding the backgrounds, and really seeking the spirit's help, and knowing how to navigate that. Sounds like you and Mace came to a place of unity in how to handle it.

>> Jeremiah: 26:10

Yeah. And I, and I would say, you know, for us, we were starting a church, you know, and I wouldn't necessarily say because my understanding is that some people that are raising support through the organization you're supporting and helping, they go and teach somewhere else. There's some teachers involved, and so there's a little bit of a difference in saying, you know what, I'm going to be a teacher. And, you know, it is going to be Christian influenced. but I think a lot of people, you know, it may have changed the approach a little bit if we're sitting there saying, you know, okay, we're going to start an orphanage, you know, I think a lot of people can get behind that, even if it's a Christian, led orphanage, because people believe that this is important work regardless of their faith background. A lot of people, especially come to the United States, they believe, hey, this is good, whether or not it's a Christian or whatever. So I say that only not to discourage you, anyone, from going in these situations. But there, it would be, there would be some inauthentic, it would be, it would feel inauthentic to ask non believers to support the work of starting a new church because we need to reach people that aren't church. When I'm asking someone, this doesn't jibe. Well, it didn't feel right. And we, you know, you can't, you really, that's why I'm putting a list together. And being smart about who you ask is important too, you know, I mean, get your list together sometimes. Some people that are really close to you in a particular sphere of life, they may not be your supporters for what you're doing next, and that's okay. Or, you know, if it's a big thing that anybody can be a part of, be excited about that, you know. So just kind of keep that in mind, too.

>> Heather: 27:56

It sounds like you've already shared a few moments or people, that have given without you, you saying you didn't ask them, like the, the father and son that give $1,000. You mentioned another, but share a story of how God provided, maybe for you, for both Yamisa, your family.

>> Jeremiah: 28:15

Sure, sure. well, the whole story is one of how God provided, and I think that I would reiterate that God provides to the giving he provided to the real estate. there were a few examples in that early support raising stage of people that just gave, one person who. I don't know that I ever had more than 20 words with them. I heard about my vision. He found out how to give. He gave, like,$5,000. That was a generous give. Now, he had a connection to a regular supporter, but I think they must have just said, yeah, he's. He's good. You know, that's basically it. So, I mean, little. Little things like that. As far as it goes, there's several times where, you know, in the midst of, oh, man, this person's not giving. I thought they would give, or God would, surprise us. And that's. I'm sure you're going to have so many examples. Everybody that raises support tells you about, you know, in those moments where somebody didn't give like you hoped, someone else that you didn't expect at all to give came through. And there were so many examples of that, along the way, so. But. And, ah, I say that to say, you know, every time God provided for us along the way is, you know, unexpected and surprising. But those are some of the ones I can remember best.

>> Heather: 29:39

Mm Well, Jeremiah, this has been really helpful, I guess, you know, as we kind of close out this conversation by way of encouragement, what else would you want to say to our listeners as they persevere in support based ministry?

>> Jeremiah: 29:52

Yeah. The most important thing I would communicate to anybody raising support is, if it's worth it, people will support it. You have to be convinced in your own mind that what you are doing really is valuable. And then the only difficult part is helping other people see why you think it's valuable. You know, I mean, I think that's. That's the bottom line. I get a lot of people that talk to me about their anxieties, and it's like, hey, I just asked them a simple question. Do you think this is important? And almost, you know, like, of course I think this is important. I'm doing it. Right. Well, then you need to have that mindset when you're raising funds, that this is super valuable and it's worth giving to. It's worth giving your own life to. I mean, you're. You only have, you know, and I'm saying you in the general sense, m you. But any one of you, you. We all have about 77 years, if we live the average life. And to give yourself to something for five to ten years, well, there'd be worth something. And, so it's not a big deal to ask people to, support you in that if. If it's a good thing that doesn't have another sourcing method. So that's the bottom line. I would drive home to someone. If you come to the point where you realize it's not valuable, then change direction and do something else.

>> Heather: 31:18

Yeah. I just really love that. That really spoke to my heart. Jeremiah, thank you. It's convicting because it's just simple and direct. Like, if you believe in it and you're for it and you're for what God's doing, then speak from that place rather than, like, being anxious about it or nervous about it. It's plain and simple.

>> Jeremiah: 31:37

Yes.

>> Heather: 31:38

Thank you.

>> Jeremiah: 31:40

That is right.

>> Heather: 31:41

Do you have any resources along the way that you'd like to share with our listeners?

>> Jeremiah: 31:46

No, because I, didn't get resourced very well at all. That's, I guess maybe the other encouragement, to, who knows what we could have raised if I'd had a little bit more insight and direction. I really, when I say I was trained by two non professional support raisers who were just about a year or two ahead of me on how they did. I mean, they literally gave me a pyramid with dollar amounts, showed me a prospectus they had drawn, up. I kind of did the same thing and went out and did it. So if you're a resource, how much better off are you going to be?

>> Heather: 32:24

Yep. Well, thank you for your insight. That is really meaningful. Jen, do you want to ask our final question? Yes. So we have a fun final question, and it can be related to fundraising or not. You have$10,000 that you have to give away today. You have 5 seconds to decide who or what you give it to.

>> Jeremiah: 32:44

And I would exclude my church just because I think that would be self serving. there's a guy who started an orphanage in Uganda who was at our church formally, and I would give it to his orphanage in Uganda. Wow.

>> Heather: 33:02

Some of my best friends have adopted a son from an orphanage in Uganda, so that's very cool.

>> Jeremiah: 33:07

Yes, very cool.

>> Heather: 33:10

Wonderful. Well, Jeremiah, thank you again for your time. Please tell me that we missed her, but we understand. And, Jen, thanks again for your part in this conversation. And listeners will catch you next time. Time.

>> Jeremiah: 33:24

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