It's Not About the Money: In Search of Grounded Fundraising

39. (Mini Series EP 6) Beth Smith on Listening and Learning

• Heather Winchell and Andy Brennan • Season 3 • Episode 39

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Join Heather and co-host Jenn as they conclude their mini-series on the unique considerations of support raising in ethnically diverse communities. In this episode, they are joined by Beth Smith, interim MPD director with BSM in Texas. Beth shares her extensive experience in fundraising within the Baptist Student Ministry and the insights gained from supporting a diverse staff. From understanding the cultural nuances of different communities to creating effective resources, Beth sheds light on the importance of listening, learning, and adapting in the fundraising process.

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>> Heather:

Welcome to it's not about the money, a podcast in search of grounded fundraising. I'm Heather, and together with my co host, Andy, we look beyond the quick tips and formulas. Join us as we explore the nuance and complexity of ministry fundraising. If you want to thrive in partner development, not just survive it, this is the place for you. Hello and welcome back to the show, you guys. Today we are wrapping up our mini series series. So, for the last several weeks, we have been focusing on conversations that engage the unique and often nuanced considerations that come with support raising in ethnically diverse populations. And though we believe that there are universal truths that just apply to the fundraising process, we also know that not all funding communities are equally equipped. And as you've heard us say many times, the work of support raising certainly is not a formula. So today we are joined by Beth Smith. Beth is currently serving as an interim MPD director with BSM in Texas. Just as Provisio was launching its mini series on ethnically diverse fundraising last year, the BSM was in the midst of its own production of resources in this area. We've asked Beth to join us as we recap this mini series. So, Beth, welcome to the show. Can you share a bit about your own fundraising experience before we dive in?

>> Beth Smith:

Yeah. Hello. Thank you for having me today. I am so excited to join you in this conversation. You know, I've worked for our organization, baptist student ministry, for 30 years, and in those years, I have raised support for programs. I've raised support for additional staff to bring interns or other staff members on with us in baptist student ministry, as I served as a director on a local campus, then as I moved into a role kind of a regional area in the Dallas Fort Worth area, and now that I'm on our staff, in our state office, with Baptist student ministry, you know, we're campus based, ministry. We focus on engaging the campus, sharing the gospel, and we say also then transforming the world. And so, raising support for me is about, you know, not just my own salary and benefits, but it is about all of the people that work for us having an opportunity to follow God's calling to, do ministry and how we can empower them and equip them to do what they feel like God is called to do. And so that's my new role, is to not just, do my own fundraising, but also to encourage and to equip all of our staff members in Texas to raise funds primarily for their salary and benefits. Right. But then also beyond that, for their other needs as well.

>> Heather:

M as you've stepped into this role, has there been anything that you weren't expecting that's just been really refreshing about this role for you?

>> Beth Smith:

You know, what's refreshing for me is, hearing someone's big, vision for what they're trying to do. The reason they got into campus ministry. we have a lot of our young staff who began following Christ in college because of our ministry, and they've decided to stay and join our ministry and give that opportunity to other students.

>> Heather:

Very cool. I love that. And so, you know, just to, I guess, give some context and to make some connections, I was introduced to Meg Craig that is part of the Texas BSM team. She was actually on the podcast last season, if anybody wanted to look that up. She's really great. But through that connection with her, I started to hear about some projects that you guys had, and I know that you recently produced and released, a video series that was exploring considerations in ethnically diverse fundraising, which piqued my interest because, you know, we've recently launched our curriculum, and, of course, we're having this mini series. And so I would just love to hear more about what prompted that project for you guys at the BSM.

>> Beth Smith:

You know, really, what prompted it is a recognition that Texas is just a big, diverse state. Right. M when, we think about our state, we want our staffing to resemble the demographics, not just on the campus, but also in our state. and the reason we want that is so that we can reach more people with the gospel. You know, there are 30 million Texans. wow. And most people would assume that, the majority are anglo, but that's actually not true any longer. A little over 40% of the people, residing in Texas are hispanic or Latino. there are 164 languages spoken in Texas.

>> Heather:

Wow.

>> Beth Smith:

a little over 13% of, Texans are african American. and only 39% are anglo. And so, because of this diversity in our state and our desire to make sure we're empowering, staff to reach college students, we recognize that our staff demographics need to closely m model after the state demographics, if that makes sense. And so that's. That's kind of what prompted us to have this conversation. We're not there yet. We have a long way to go, but in the recognition that, hey, we need to make some changes, how will we bring new staff on, to reach the students? we have one campus in particular that has a lot of graduate students. Most of them are from South Asia, and so it was amazing when we brought a south Asian onto our staff, the immediate growth in impact that, that staff member had. And so that's what is driving us to, like, figure out if the traditional fundraising tips and tricks or formulas are not effective. What do we need to do? It's either about how we communicate, those skills. it's about understanding their stories a little better. It's about understanding cultural norms, for example. And so all those things have driven us to kind of explore further, how do we provide the right resources? How do we listen, really well to our staff that we currently have and learn from them as we bring on other new staff from these different ethnicities?

>> Heather:

Yeah, I love that. And I'm surprised, I guess I'm a little surprised to hear that in the way you break down representation in Texas. I think you said that the latino population is the highest percentage. Correct. At 40.

>> Beth Smith:

It is, yeah.

>> Heather:

Wow. Very cool. The other thing I loved about what you said is, you know, just really having a heart to see your campus ministry reflect the diversity you see on campus. And then I'll just also just understanding that God's global church was always meant to be represented by a variety of backgrounds, and cultures. So I just. I love how that is ultimately more in line with what we understand God's global family and his church to look like. So that's very cool.

>> Beth Smith:

Absolutely. Yeah. When I think about the image that's given to us in revelation about what heaven will be like, that there are people from every tongue and tribe and language, I want that picture to be true today.

>> Heather:

Yes.

>> Beth Smith:

And it's not true today. So what steps do we need to take to be more in line with that global image? Right. Of God's kingdom.

>> Heather:

Sure. What have been some. I'm just curious, Beth, what have been some aha, moments thus far? You said, you know, still a work in progress. Obviously, all of us are with what we're involved in, but what have been some aha, moments, just as you've been maybe producing these resources and thinking through your staffing?

>> Beth Smith:

You know, I think it's a couple of specific, moments, right. In conversations. I was asking one of our african american workers, he's been struggling to get fully funded. It's taken him about three years, and we've come alongside and partnered with him in that. But in the conversation, we've asked questions of him. One question. That was an aha moment for me. I said, how do the black churches, in your experience, fund and support missionaries? M. What is the method they use to do that. what's true in your cultural context that maybe is not true in my cultural context. And when he described for me, you know, well, they would come and speak on a Sunday morning and the church would take up an offering, and if it wasn't enough, they might take up a second offering and that money would then be given to that worker. we said, what about that? Could we tap into, how do we not try to speak a language that's not being spoken in that church about supporting missionaries? But how do we speak the same language and communicate that we are missionaries as well? We're just missionaries to a college campus down the street instead of on the other side of the globe. So I think that was an aha moment in learning how he described his churches and how they would give to missionaries. I don't know that I would take that piece of information and apply it to every african american worker we have, but it definitely was an aha moment in I need to ask these kinds of m questions. I can't make assumptions, that what is true in one place is true in another place.

>> Heather:

Yeah. And I actually think that's a really important element to remember in this whole conversation is just within the diversity, there's even deeper diversity. You know, so much can be different. And I think actually, even thinking back to my conversation with you, Jen, like Jen's experience in two korean churches was very, very different. Or two, maybe maybe more generationally different. Yeah, generationally different. Yeah. So I think that, that understanding that this principle isn't just a one and done for all people that would identify with a certain cultural context, that's important. And I think it's wonderful. Beth. Sorry. what you said about taking into context, it might only be specific to this black church, but also remembering, we just need to be asking these questions to everybody.

>> Beth Smith:

I think another good example of that, another aha moment for me in the conversation, actually, after we recorded the conversation with our hispanic workers, one of them was saying to me, not all Hispanics are the same. Right. There can be, Tex Mex. Right. We live in Texas, but right along the border there can be, hispanic, a, mexican context. There can be a hispanic south american context. So all of those are uniquely different. I think it's exactly what you just said. There is a difference between an older korean generation and the way they do things and a younger korean generation and the way they do things. we have a campus minister who's expressed exactly that same thing. His church was very traditional. And when he began to express a desire to be, a missionary on the college campus and invite his church to do that with him, knowing that he would not only be reaching korean students, but he'd be reaching all students, there was some tension, and it had to do with the generations and the traditions and those that were willing to try new things not so tied into those things. So we've experienced the same thing in Texas.

>> Heather:

Well, and honestly, I think this same principle applies just for any church in America right now. I just really feel like there's a lot of changes, even generationally, in every community, with the way you talk to people about things, their willingness to trust what you're saying and, you know, invest in that. I mean, it's good to continue asking the questions, even in a context where a certain method of approach has worked for as long as you can remember, it's good to still ask those questions. So when we start working with people in a coaching capacity, we really love to know where they're coming from, kind of what their initial expectations and feelings about support based work and asking for support, things like that, kind of where they land. I'm curious whether you saw any themes in your own conversations as to what the expectations or feelings about fundraising were as people were getting started.

>> Beth Smith:

Yeah, absolutely. Heather. one thing I noticed, too, I think our early experiences around money, actually create a framework for that. For example, my parents filed for divorce and bankruptcy on the same day when I was a teen, and we spent a lot of time as children, one or the other of my parents being unemployed or underemployed. And so the subject of money and what I thought about money coming into my adulthood was not very fully formed. It was based in those early experiences. And so the way I was handling my money was very similar to that as I moved into coaching. I think being aware of those early experiences with money is a key thing.

>> Heather:

Totally.

>> Beth Smith:

I was talking to a worker recently whose parents had been, missionaries, but they couldn't raise enough support, locally where they were, and so they just got secular jobs and stopped doing the ministry. And this particular worker has been struggling to raise his finances. And I just paused and asked if he could connect any of those early experiences that he had as a child with what he was struggling with today. That's one thing. I think that it's not just about cultural, experience, but I think it maybe goes back even further into some childhood experience about money. Our hispanic workers, for example, would tell me? Well, actually, our hispanic workers and our african american workers, our parents don't like it that they've sent us to college and we've gotten a degree, and now we're gonna beg for money. They use that expression, beg for money. M and so understanding that that's where they come from and helping them to gain some confidence about this is not begging for money. How's a different way of looking at this? Or what is a different way of looking at this? so that you can go into it with some confidence. I think that's one thing for sure. I think there has been a kind of a common theme, in my context, it's very different. I can schedule a coffee or a lunch appointment with someone, a support development meeting, and I would probably schedule that for a 1 hour time block, just like I schedule a lot of other things. Our hispanic workers were like, oh, no, if we are less than 2 hours when we're sitting down with somebody, we've not done it right. And so the amount of time it might take in some, less task oriented, more relationship oriented cultures, I think, was, another moment where I have to realize, as I'm coaching some of our workers to just be aware of that, to help them when I set a goal to say, I want you to have ten support appointments in a week if you're doing this full time. that may be a big goal if they're having to do two or three hour meetings with people.

>> Heather:

Ah.

>> Beth Smith:

Whereas a 1 hour meeting, if most of mine are a 1 hour meeting, I could get those ten done a lot quicker. So just recognizing that, I think has been helpful, in thinking about. Here's a common theme that I need to be aware of, as I'm coaching people.

>> Heather:

Those are so good. Beth, I had my own aha moment when you're talking about the framework of money and your upbringing. Because I have not, I guess. I mean, of course, right. It influences us, and it's almost like we have to talk about all the psychological things about that. But it's so nuanced as well, because being korean or whatever, ethnicity is also tied to the cultural aspects of it. Right. Because I was thinking, as you were mentioning your parents being divorced and finally for, bankruptcy, I'm thinking through my parents being immigrants, right. And their framework of money is they were poor as heck, coming to America, and then that being my framework, then, growing up and then trying to raise funds. So it's so very nuanced, because as much as you want to separate those things is also tied together. Yeah. And to your point, Beth, it's such a meaningful thing to recognize and work through. And honestly, that's something important for anybody to work through. Any adult needs to understand the way they relate to that, because depending on your experiences, you can continue to show up in a, in a broken way as, as you relate to money. But my other co host, Andy and I, we really love to talk about how fundraising support development is such an invitation into formation as a person of the Lord, because, because it helps you reframe. And really, for all of us, the Lord is our provider. That looks very different depending on what he's called us to do. But it's just, yeah, it's an invitation to look at the ways, the broken ways we relate to things and then to be reformed into dependence on the Lord. So I'm curious, as you identified that people had these maybe filters for viewing support development, how have you seen that change over time? Or how has their thoughts or feelings about fundraising evolved?

>> Beth Smith:

That's a great question, Heather. Some of the change in evolving, I think, comes with, again, being grounded in that scriptural framework. let's go back to how, the Levites were provided for in the Old Testament. and let's reread that story and let's make sure we understand it. I shared with our staff recently, from the story of David and Goliath. And Goliath has all this armor on, and he's tall, and he has a armor bear that goes in front of him. And David, at first, Saul wants to send David out dressed up, right, as a soldier. And he tries to put his own armor on him. And David's like, this doesn't fit for me. This doesn't work for me. and so I was encouraging our workers, like, don't try to go into this with something that doesn't fit you. and I think, culturally speaking, when we're talking about workers, from these different groups, I have to be able to help them recognize it. I have to recognize it for myself. What is it that I might be putting on you that's ill fitting and because fitting, it's making you not successful? Because this is the standard we have, in Texas, we're moving more and more of our people, who've been struggling into deeper coaching again, trying to come back to, why did you get into this in the first place? why do you want to keep doing this? Trying to help them, be re energized to get back to fully funded if they've been a little bit underfunded. But hearing their stories and listening really well and honestly just trying to help them discern what can help them move forward has been one of the things I've been learning how to do better. and I think is helping as I share that with another coach and another coach and we kind of pull into each other and we're like, how can we improve how we are helping our workers to get the fully funded and to stay fully funded?

>> Heather:

I love that so much because we often emphasize the relational aspect of the worker to, our network, right. But it's so much on the flip side as well. The coach or the sending church or the sending organization and the worker themselves. Like the relational aspect is all around. It's not just to get the funds right, but how are we being poured into who is supporting us. So that's a really important call out. I love that, Beth.

>> Beth Smith:

Yeah. Well, one of my coworkers said this week, we were talking about what could we do to help, some of our hispanic workers that they, especially along the border of Texas, the economy is weaker and so sometimes they don't have a large network of people they can ask. Sometimes their average gift is a smaller amount, so they end up needing more partners. But I was reminded by my coworker yesterday that being able to send more of these workers out and equipping them, it's really not about resourcing them, it's about empowering them and giving them the confidence, that what they're doing is worthy of, support, as much as it is. I don't need to run around and try to find some money in our budget that I can put over to this worker's salary to help them. Right. It's not about me trying to find the resource, it's about me helping them to be empowered to go to their networks. and then I think just another, reminder maybe, or something that I think is a truth today. Right. that relates to that is, it's not always about the size of your network or the capacity of your network. I think it's really more about the vision that you have, and the ability to articulate it. Right. If you can tell a big story that someone wants to invest in, I think that's a skill that I'm wanting all of our workers to have.

>> Heather:

Yeah. The skill of communicating with clarity and vision casting. Yeah, that actually brings me to another question I had for you. Understanding that there is a lot of nuance here. With your own experiences in living on support and also coaching others, what other skills or tools would you say are pretty universal that you would really want all of your staff to take hold of and have in their tool belt?

>> Beth Smith:

When you are sharing your vision with someone, you have to make a strong ask. I m think sometimes I've listened to someone practice their support raising walk or pitch or presentation, and they do a really good job of. Of saying, you know, this is who I am, this is where I'm going, this is why I'm doing this. But then they kind of soft pedal the actual like, and so would you partner with me? Would you give$100 a month? would you give so that I can do this ministry? That part is, for some people, they're not as confident about that. that's across the board, that's not tied to any cultural, group at all, across the board, if they just don't have that confidence. So helping them to be strong in that piece of their meeting with someone, in their relationship with someone. I think another truth is that, we're learning the people that are on your partnership team, they've committed to you and they are praying for you, and they are giving money so that you can do this ministry. You have to communicate with them on a regular basis. I think some of our early training gave the impression that you could send a newsletter at the end of the semester, and a written newsletter sent out to your partners or your supporters was enough. And so, for me, I think one of the things that I think is a truth or a tool is if someone is giving to make it possible for me to do this ministry every month, they should hear from me every month. there needs to be a response, and that can vary. Some months it can be a handwritten thank you notes, and months it can be a group text. Some months it could be a post in a social media forum. But this idea that I'm just going to receive their dollars and I'm not really going to. I'm too busy doing this work on campus, so I'm not really going to pay attention to the relationship, that's really a failure in understanding. Another thing is sometimes, because we work around an academic calendar and an academic year, we do a lot of our fundraising in May and June and July so that someone can work the whole academic year. So they kind of put all their thinking about that work in those couple of months, and then they could go almost a whole year, nine months, ten months, without really communicating very well with their donors, or even thinking about, am I fully funded? Am I not fully funded? And they get immersed in their job, which is what we want them to do. They're passionate about their job, but I keep having to remind them, you can never sit down with another college student and share the gospel with them if you can't stay fully funded. Those two things go hand in hand. And so I think that's another truth that I'm trying to just urge our people to remember that you don't get to do the ministry if you haven't done the work, around your support, raising and maintaining that network in a healthy way.

>> Heather:

Yeah. It just reminds me of how important it is to view your partnership development as like, legitimately part of the ministry.

>> Beth Smith:

Totally agree with you, Heather, that you're inviting your partners to come alongside you as you're doing this ministry. But if you're not, yeah. Relating to them, communicating with them, thanking them, acknowledging what is happening on a regular enough basis, they lose interest. And when they lose interest, they're going to find another way to spend that money. And so, I think that is one of the truths that I think apply universally is this. It's about the relationship, not about the dollars.

>> Heather:

Totally.

>> Beth Smith:

And so I want to maintain this relationship, with the people that believe in me enough to allow me to do this ministry.

>> Heather:

I was also in the, so this was over a decade ago when I was support raising to go on the field internationally, and I was definitely of that group, like, okay, I'm gonna send my big Christmas newsletter at the end of the semester, and then I'm gonna do my big, you know, spring semester closeout newsletter. But I think it's such an amazing, time of our lives that we're in now. if you're in this work, because social media is so accessible. And even when I was on the field, we didn't have smartphones, though it literally did not exist. And so to have the tools that we have now, I think, wow, like, people are getting so creative nowadays, to post not only on social media, but to have YouTube channels and have videos and engage people in that way. So I think it takes work, but I think it's such an amazing time to be in with technology as well. Well. And I was actually curious whether with different communities, you saw one medium being favored over another. You know, for example, you said that in the hispanic community, the value of presence and kind of presence over time is really valued. And so I wonder if in that context, it's less communication via a medium like email or something like that, and if it is more actually meeting with people or having larger groups of people gather for dinner or something like that.

>> Beth Smith:

Yeah, I think that's absolutely true, that, there are some of those uniquenesses and differences, the personal nature, the relational nature of, some cultures, that put a higher priority on people over tasks. the warmer culture climates is the way I like to think of it. Colder culture climates are those that, like, I got to get this done. And the warmer culture climates are. Those are like, you are important to me. How do I communicate that? I don't know yet that I can pinpoint precisely, what some of those differences are. I think I'm still learning, I think listening, and again, not applying something universally to everybody. But also, I'm curious about this. The other thing is, rather than making a declarative statement, you should do this, out of curiosity, asking a question, you know, what do you think about, raising the funds in your community is different than it might be for a coworker in another part of our state to help them think about it, to help them kind of come up with a solution, that works for their culture, for their personality, for who they are, for their geography, where they are. I recently was talking to a worker in, like, one part of our state, and he was like, I just don't know who else to ask. And so I was helping him brainstorm, and I was like, who else cares about your city? Maybe they don't live in your city, but they care about your city? He was like, what do you mean? I said, can you think of two or three churches that maybe bring a, mission trip to your city every year, and that church could be in another location, but they care enough about your city to come and do this every single year. Why not talk to them and begin a partnership and a relationship with them to see if they would be willing to also support you financially? and so just trying to help people creatively think about their networks, to think about ways to access those networks that are culturally norms. like I mentioned early on in the podcast with our african american worker in this church and how they support missionaries, I think, those are some of the things that I'm learning, and still curious about and want to keep asking about. we produce these three videos, and really all they are is conversations, are workers sitting around a table having a conversation with each other about what it's like to do fundraising for campus ministry in the african american context, or what it's like to do fundraising for campus ministry in the, hispanic context. And then we, you know, we edited and watched the videos, and I thought, we need a video that's in Spanish.

>> Heather:

Wow.

>> Beth Smith:

That's not in spoken English. If we're really going to, like, help reach more workers, it needs to be in their native language, their heart language. So that's probably our next project is to gather some of our workers, who are native spanish speakers who could produce a video for us. A conversation about fundraising in their context.

>> Heather:

I love that. That brought tears to my eyes. Yeah, I love that. well, and as I'm listening to you, Beth, I'm just really struck and very thankful for the fact that you've been put in this role, because I just think that what I hear you saying is words like listening, learning, curiosity. And I think that's very important.

>> Beth Smith:

Yeah, Heather, you know, I know your listeners can't see me, but, you know, a redheaded, fair skinned white woman, doesn't know all the answers. I certainly don't. I have some affinity for, making sure people feel welcome. My parents were often excluded, from their community for a specific reason. And I grew up kind of, again, watching that and being aware of that and wanting them to do things that would make them feel included. And I think that's part of the reason why this is so important to me. I want everyone on our staff to feel like they're getting as much support as they can to be successful. Not because, you know, we're measuring success by dollars, but I want them to be successful in accomplishing the calling that God has on their life. Ah. And I want them to be able to do that because they've done the hard work of support raising to give them those opportunities. And I want to be able to say, ten years from now, man, look at the changes that we've made, in our context, to empower more and more of those workers so that our staff does look like the demographic of the state and of our college businesses.

>> Heather:

May m it be so? I believe it will be. Well, I think this has been such a fruitful conversation. I think I've really been struck just by and, you know, I already understood this, but struck anew by how the training and tools, the differences in training and tools are there in terms of different communities, but also the coaching and how important it is to have somebody working in a coaching relationship that is not going to be putting ill fitting equipment on you or ill fitting tools or expectations. I really loved the way you articulated that because something thats ill fitting or that adds a weight that you cant, that you shouldnt bear up under, I mean, that can just really sideline or totally discourage you. And I think weve seen that. I mean, ive certainly spoken with people that just felt so, so discouraged by some of the experiences they've had where they've kind of been given a formula and then made to feel like something's wrong with them because the formula is not working. And, yeah, and that's just not, I don't think that's the way it has to be. And so I'm encouraged to hear you speak to training your coaches and really giving your coaches the attunement to see, hey, this is ill fitting for you. Let's not, let's put that aside. What can we better understand here, you know?

>> Beth Smith:

Yeah, thank you. I realize that every coaching call I have, someone will tell me, I have this document, but I don't really love it. And I'm like, well, why don't you love it? Because this thing feels awkward. Okay, well, it's okay. You can take that piece off. What do you need to give yourself the confidence, to go in front of your community and ask them to support you? What is that going to take? It doesn't have to look like this. I can give you some samples. These are some other ones that other people have created, but you still have to make it your own. What fits for you in your community, in your context, is really going to be more effective and fruitful than some formula from me or my boss or an outside organization. and their training, tips and skills that they might give to us.

>> Heather:

Yeah. If we can just kind of like, reframe a bit instead of seeing it as like a formula that's very set and doesn't have any movement to it, to maybe more like a recipe where it's like, oh, in this context, we're going to adjust this and over here we're going to add cinnamon. And here it's high altitude, so it bakes differently. Right. Like there's just, with a recipe, you're probably going to find a lot of similar ingredients, you know, in terms of, like, what it looks like to make an ask or a phone call or prepare a newsletter. Like, there's going to be commonalities for sure, but there's a lot of wiggle room with that. Yeah.

>> Beth Smith:

Yeah, that was great, Heather. I was writing that down. I'm going to steal that from you with your permission.

>> Heather:

Oh, absolutely. You should. You should. Well, this has been really rich time. I know that peppered within our talk, we've all kind of shared some takeaways that we've had from just looking at these concepts. I'm wondering if there's anything else that feels important to name. Before we wrap up our conversation. I.

>> Beth Smith:

Think one thing for me is that, as I'm listening closely, I want the support, raising and the fundraising that someone might be doing to be driven by this bigger vision for the work. You know, don't go to someone and say, would you give me money so that I can, get a paycheck? No, let's go to someone and let's talk about the capacity for changing the world when we have the opportunity to share the gospel with a college student. and so the bigger vision or the bigger, purpose behind what you're doing, I, think is a consideration, that I want every worker to think through and work through. not just the students on your own campus today. Maybe the bigger vision is, I said to a worker today, for the next generation of students at this university, that's a bigger vision than just the, 14 girls you might be meeting with this week, but you have an opportunity to influence an entire generation. So it's this bigger vision for the work that I think, again, if you can articulate it and communicate it really well, is compelling to potential partners.

>> Heather:

Yeah. And I feel like that's just a really helpful concept for being human. Right? Like broadening your perspective, kind of thinking outside of this very, like, small element, you know? So in fundraising, maybe it's kind of consumed or fixating on making the ask or on the size of your network or whatever. And as you said, expanding that to be more like the opportunity and sharing the gospel. And, and we do that in so many areas. I mean, I'm just, I'm thinking of the sermon we had this past weekend at my church, and they were talking about stewardship and of time specifically. And we can get so focused and fixated on, like, should my kid play soccer or should our family invest in this or whatever, versus zooming out for the kind of the bigger picture of what really helps to drive your decisions versus just being so fixated. So, Beth, I feel like that is such a key, helpful tool for anybody, just broadening perspective. And my biggest takeaway out of all these conversations kind of goes in line with what Beth is saying, but in a different way. But when I think of vision too, I just think of when it comes to fundraising, when it comes to paying attention to ethnically diverse communities, it's ever changing, it's ever evolving, right? Just like the times, just like social media, just like technology is ever evolving. And so to always pause, whether we're on this side as a coach, whether on the flip side or even in somebody's network, to give money, to always pause and think, like we talked about earlier, what's ill fitting right now, what's not working. Because I think also what we do is we tend to get so fixated on, what has been working or what we have been doing and not steering away from that. But again, it's ever changing. Times are always evolving. People are always changing. The culture, everything, right? And so to just pause every so often and to think, like, what needs to change now? What is working, what isn't? And then on the flip side, the encouragement is that the gospel stays the same, that the faithfulness of God stays the same, no matter what, right? Cause we're not perfect. None of us are. But to know, even in those moments where we haven't paid attention closely enough to what has changed or what's not working, God is still faithful. He's still providing. Yes, absolutely. An ah. Amen. And I would just say to what you said about pausing to ask, like, what's still working, what's not working? And really learning to have capacity for holding the tension of not just abandoning something, to do something totally new, but really doing the work of wrestling through, like, okay, how is this recipe still valid? It just needs to be tweaked or something, right? Because I would hate to see just abandoning really fruitful tools or ways of thinking, completely. But certainly reevaluating is helpful. You know, I think one last thing I would want to say, as I've just been reflecting on our conversations, is there are some very key differences. I'm remembering a conversation we had about, I think it was the black church and how understandably many of the people thought, hey, we have needs within our own community that we've been putting our money towards for decades because our community itself has had need of that specific support, because of what we've gone through in this country. Right? And that is so understandable. And as you know, as you said, as we desire to see ministry workers represent the communities that they're serving, certainly we want to see more workers out of that church going forward. And so we want that church to grow in its vision for supporting its scent workers. Right. But I'm just struck by how it's not as though something is deficient, that the church isn't there yet. I just so trust that the Lord's timing in bringing awareness within communities, it's not as though they're somehow behind in what God has been trying to do. I'm just so deeply encouraged that this is a moment where he's sowing more awareness for this kind of. Of funding in ministry, you know, and I think that's important. Well, it's from that awareness that action takes place. Right. So, Beth, you were aware of. Here are the demographics of the state of Texas. Here's what our staff looks like. Hey, that's the awareness and then thinking through what changes can be made. Right. So the next steps. So that awareness is key for sure. Right? Yeah. Well, Beth, like I said before, this has been really rich time, and, we definitely want to respect your time. So as we're kind of wrapping up, I would just love to know, by way of encouragement, what else you might want to say to our listeners as they persevere in support based ministry.

>> Beth Smith:

Well, Heather, I think you've probably already said it a thousand times on your podcast, right? That we have to keep our focus on our own spiritual life, right. That this is not, to be done without the spirit's power. We won't be fruitful in our efforts of, calling someone and asking for an appointment and sitting down and asking if we're doing it in our own power, if we're doing it because we feel like we have to or we feel like there's some obligation that has to be met. M we really have to persevere in our support based ministry, out of what comes in the richness and overflow of our own relationship with the father and how he's called us to the ministries that he's called us to do. And in moments where I'm struggling or I'm having a hard time, that's what I need to lean back into to be able to move forward, is my own spiritual life. And what message do I need to hear from God today before I call someone and ask them if they would be a partner with me?

>> Heather:

Absolutely. Absolutely. And are there any resources that you would recommend to our listeners that you have found helpful or that your team or ethnically diverse staff have found helpful, helpful.

>> Beth Smith:

Thinking about that whole idea of your spiritual life? Henry Nouwen's little book, the Spirituality of fundraising, I think is a foundational resource, or tool that I would recommend. that's probably the primary one. I think for those of us, who are Anglo, who are trying to work with someone from another culture, anything that I can read or listen to that helps me understand the culture or be curious about the culture, there could be a thousand of those. Write books on different topics. But if I can be open to learning, I think it then enriches the relationship and the conversation of my coaching.

>> Heather:

Absolutely. And I'm wondering, Beth, just kind of off of that comment. I just really have a conviction that this series isn't only for those that find themselves coming from an ethnically diverse community, but this is actually a really wonderful series for all workers to engage, because the awareness, the understanding of how to best support the curiosity, the understanding, like you said, I think it's just vital for everybody. I don't think that this is a siloed conversation. I'm sure you would agree.

>> Beth Smith:

I, absolutely agree with that. Right.

>> Heather:

Yeah. Well, we have one final fun question that we like to ask all of our guests. Beth, so you have $10,000 that you have to give away today. You have 5 seconds to decide. Who or what do you give it to?

>> Beth Smith:

Man? I would use it to empower some of our young leaders. I would give them. I would give them the funds, and I would ask them to, use it for a project that would develop other leaders, future leaders. I, really believe that when I give someone agency by giving them a resource or I ask for their assistance in leading something, that they, will use that agency for the betterment of the cause. I would definitely give it, to a young worker and say, what project can you think of that we could come up with that would help us train up the next generation of workers just like yourself? What could we do with this that would help us to reach that next group? so that's how I'd spend it if I had to today.

>> Heather:

I love it. I love it, too. Well, Beth, thank you so much for your time and for this conversation. And may everything you are hoping and praying for in your workers and in the ministry they have on those campuses be brought to a fruit by the power of the lord.

>> Beth Smith:

Thank you so much. I have really enjoyed being with you ladies today. It's not about the money is presented by Provisio fundraising solutions, provisio equips, support based workers with flexible training, practical resources, and one on one coaching.

>> Heather:

Find out more@provisiofundraising.com.