42. Mary Valloni on Building Trust in an age of Skepticism

"Trust isn’t built overnight—it’s built in the little, consistent moments where we show up authentically."

"When you go in for a transaction instead of a relationship, it feels dirty. But fundraising isn’t about money—it’s about partnerships and impact."

"We aren’t selling a product—we’re inviting people to be part of the greatest mission of all time."

In this episode, Mary Valloni, fundraising expert and host of the Fully Funded Podcast, joins the conversation to unpack the crucial role of trust in donor relationships. She shares insights from her journey, from raising her own support in college ministry to helping nonprofits secure sustainable funding. Mary emphasizes that fundraising isn’t just about money—it’s about building authentic partnerships, shifting from a scarcity to an abundance mindset, and representing ministry with integrity. She also introduces practical strategies, including the Know-Like-Trust-Give model and the power of having a personal advisory team to strengthen donor relationships. Packed with wisdom and actionable takeaways, this episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to fundraise with confidence and purpose.

In this episode:

• Why trust is more critical than ever in today's skeptical world
• How being genuine transforms donor partnerships
• Kingdom perspective on fundraising
• Actionable advice for cultivating trust and authenticity
• You can get your copy of Fully Funded now!
• More information on Fully Funded Academy and the work and partnership of Mary Valloni and Mike Kim

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your network. Follow It’s Not About the Money for more insightful discussions on faith-based fundraising and support raising!

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

What we have to sell, what you have to Sell? Sell, I'll put that in quotes. Is the greatest mission of all time, right? Like, God doesn't need you. He uses you, right? Like he allows us to experience these really incredible ministry moments and, like, you know, just miracles and the work that's being done in our ministries. And so for us, like it is so important that we we actually represent him well, and that we put ourselves out there as ambassadors, you know, for the kingdom.

Heather Winchell: 0:41

Welcome to it's not about the money. A podcast in search of grounded fundraising. I'm Heather and together with my co host Andy, we look beyond the Quick Tips and formulas. Join us as we explore the nuance and complexity of ministry fundraising. If you want to thrive in partner development, not just survive it, this is the place for you.

Andy Brennan: 1:02

Welcome back everybody. Everybody knows that trust is foundational to building and sustaining relationships. If you ask any fundraiser how critical it is to have trust with your donors, the response would be unanimous. It's critical. For a while now, we've been talking about hosting an episode that explores fostering trust with donors in a time, a season, an age when people have been primed not to trust or when they've experienced betrayed trust, a recent Gallup poll of Gen Z er has found they, quote, generally, lack Trust in political and societal institutions. And I think anecdotally, Heather and I would say we see this as becoming true of big church and big NGO as well. Granted, they're a segment and not the whole but generally, it feels like authenticity in 2024 is king. So today, we've invited Mary voloney, host of the fully funded podcast, onto the show today to help us unpack this important topic.

Heather Winchell: 2:07

That's right. So for those of you that may not know Mary, she is a respected expert in fundraising and hosts one of the most popular shows on the topic, the fully funded podcast. She is an award winning author of the book fundraising freedom, and has over 20 years of fundraising experience with organizations including the American Cancer Society, the ALS Association, and the Special Olympics. And she now shares this experience as a coach, a trainer, a mentor and a podcast host for nonprofit leaders around the world. You can also find more information about her on her website, which we will link in the show notes. So Mary, it is such a delight to have you joining us today.

Unknown: 2:47

Yes, thank

Heather Winchell: 2:48

you for having me, and we would just love to start out with your own story and experiences in support based work and fundraising and some of the highlights from that. Sure.

Unknown: 2:58

Yeah, so like you mentioned, I've been doing fundraising for over two decades, and in my early years of figuring out that I really do love raising funds and just enjoy the process, I started working for my college ministry. And at that time, I had to raise my own supports. And I, you know, went through the process. I was raising support for the organization itself, and I just realized in that moment, like God had just kind of planted a seed in my heart for missionaries and for ministry leaders, and just showed me that I really this is something that I am passionate about and wanted to do. So I jumped in feet first, into my college ministry, raised my own support, and then I started raising funds for the organizations you mentioned, Special Olympics, ALS Association, and then the American Cancer Society. And during my time at the American Cancer Society, I met a half a million dollars with a first year fundraising event, wow, and our community kind of like this. All happened during the Great Recession, back in, 2008 2009 and everybody was just like, What are you doing? Like, what, how did you bring in that kind of money? And it was all brand new money. We didn't steal it from other other organizations, you know, like, there wasn't anything going on here. But I, I really just embraced a new kind of model of fundraising, and I had an incredible mentor who taught me really how to engage volunteers in a new way, and it really became the foundation for what I teach today and how I help missionaries raise funds and get fully funded, ultimately, so I love to fundraise, and I know this is a topic that many People start to get a little bit of anxiety around. And for me, the reason why I love fundraising is because I really, really love people. And so I think that there's a lot of people who can resonate with that, that it's like they love people, but fundraising just doesn't seem to fall into that same bucket. And so I'm like, I hope that today's conversation can shift some people's thinking. And hopefully, you know, change their mind around fundraising and that it can be really a great part of your ministry. Yeah,

Heather Winchell: 5:07

absolutely. And I know that you, you shared with us that you actually host another podcast as well, and what was the name of that podcast

Unknown: 5:14

again? Yeah, so start and grow your nonprofit podcast is my newest podcast that I started here in the fall, and it really is, for those startup and growing nonprofit organizations, what I find, especially in the ministry space, is that for many of you guys, once you start to figure out how to raise funds, you know, so hopefully the stuff that I teach here can help you guys, and once people get their arms wrapped around Oh, fundraising isn't this isn't awful, isn't the necessary evil. It's actually a really, you know, a wonderful part of our ministry. They started to grasp just the bigger vision that God has given to them to actually start their own nonprofit. And so it really was just a natural progression for me to start really helping those organizations who want to, you know, start their own 501, c3, they want to launch their own ministry, and those are the people that we walk with. We literally hold their hand through the startup process, and then we help them grow their organization to the next level. So yeah, it's a just really nice transition. So if somebody's thinking about that, that's a great podcast for them to listen to as well, start and grow your nonprofit podcast.

Heather Winchell: 6:18

Yeah, that's wonderful. Thank you for sharing. That's wonderful. So you know, Mary, you have had so many experiences in fundraising, a very diversified portfolio in that way. I'd love to hear your take, kind of speaking to our topic today. Why is trust a critical element in partnership development?

Unknown: 6:36

Yeah. So when you think about trust in general, you know, whether it's a nonprofit, a ministry, a business, trust is a key component for everything that we purchase, everything that we bring into our lives, whether it's relationships or whether it's stuff, you know, it's like we you know, we trust companies. We trust, you know, ministries, we trust these people that are around us, and it is absolutely essential to any any relationship. And so one of the major things that I teach on is the buyer's journey. It's the donor's journey. I don't know if you guys have ever heard this, Heather, you've sat on some of my trainings in the past, and so probably have heard this along the way. But it's, it's basically just a process called, it's just no, like, trust, try, give, repeat refer. And so it's like, it's just this, it's only seven steps, and it just, like, takes people through. So the only this, you can correlate this to, like, the Jimmy Dean sausage thing, you know? Or you go to Sam's Club, or Costco, or what the grocery store, and they have the samples sitting out, and you're like, Yeah, I've heard about Jimmy Dean sausage, whatever. Like, you know, of the company, okay, you like them. They're fine. It's fine. But it's not until you start to try the product out that you start to move through the process. So it's like, but you have to trust that the product is going to be like, I'm not going to get sick. I'm not going to, you know, have a bad experience. I'm not even going to try your product if I feel like you like you aren't a viable kind of company or organization. So trust is just essential and all of that. But the know, like trust, try give repeat refer is what every single donor goes through when they decide to be a part of your donor team, of your your partnership team. So that's where, when you're like, when we aren't people telling more people about us, well, it's because you missed some element along the way. Maybe they just don't even know you exist. Maybe they're giving to you, but they don't actually trust you. You know, like, like, there's just all these things that you have to think about. But trust is just so essential, and when trust is broken, it is hard to repair. So it's like, you do have to go back and reintroduce yourself to people so that they can trust you again. So, yeah, it's, it is, it's a critical part of support raising and definitely something we have to be thinking about, yeah, and

Heather Winchell: 8:55

I think what I really appreciate about that model you kind of spelled out is that it's, it's a building of trust. You know, it's kind of like over time, over different experiences, which I think is empowering to think of like a journey of building trust. I think that's helpful,

Unknown: 9:10

yeah? So absolutely and go ahead. So

Andy Brennan: 9:12

it's not binary. It's not just they do or they don't. It's kind of a journey from I don't trust you at all to I love it, and I'm advocating and evangelizing for your product, yeah,

Unknown: 9:22

yeah. You know, a lot of people, especially in the support raising process, they think, okay, my rich uncle is going to give me a bunch of money because he knows he likes me, but, but it's, it's like, you have to think about it, that he knows and he likes you, he probably knows and loves you, actually, because you're family, right? But, but they don't. He doesn't necessarily trust your ministry, because he doesn't know your ministry. You know. He doesn't, actually, you know. So it's, it's back to we have to build trust, even if we know the people and even if they they love us in a personal relationship, we still have to, as a ministry, reconnect and actually give them a reason to trust them. Ministry and trust the fact that they can actually try the ministry out and give to it moving forward.

Andy Brennan: 10:06

Yeah, question along the trust line, have you ever witnessed the fallout of a lack of trust? So any cautionary tales for us?

Unknown: 10:14

Absolutely. So the trust, obviously, and I've seen it broken so many times when people ask for money too quickly, and so like, if you immediately, you're like, oh, I have all this money to raise for my ministry, and I need to do it as quick as possible. So I'm just going to go into the database and I'm going to go ask as many people that I know to give and trust can be broken in that moment. So I mean it deeply, like a deep break in that because you just think, Well, I'm just, you know, my the people who are teaching me how to raise funds told me I need to call these people and I need to reach out to them. And it's like, but I haven't earned the trust. I haven't even told them anything about this ministry, and I'm immediately jumping into asking them for money, yeah, when you know, so, so that's where I was like, when that trust is broken, you can go back. I mean, there's obviously, you can definitely, you know, fix it. And many times, people will come to come through our program, fully funded Academy, and they're like, shoot, I broke trust with a lot of people, because I just kind of vomited my ministry on them, and I told them I needed money, and now I feel like I ruined the relationship. What can I do? Nobody likes so I always say, I'm like, go. You can always repair a relationship. You can always go back and apologize. And so the best thing that I tell people, especially when they come through our program, is to let them know, Hey, I was really young, or I was new into my ministry. I honestly just didn't know what I didn't know. And I'm going through a coaching program, or I'm, you know, have a mentor in my life who's helping me see that I really just didn't do it very well. And so you can go back and just say I'd like to try again. Could we have a conversation? I'd love to tell you more about what we're doing, but I honestly want to reach out, because I care about you, and I care about what you're doing in your life, and I want to hear more about how are you I miss the friendship. I miss the relationship. Can we get together? You know? So there is an easy way to repair that, but I just, I think that it's especially with support raising. It's easy to break that trust, and

Andy Brennan: 12:21

you don't want to go in right away seeking a transaction. Yeah, you really want to develop the partnership, and nothing about jumping right into money. Says, I want to partner with you, right?

Unknown: 12:32

And I have to remind everybody that we all have money, so it's like the homeless guy on the street, the little kid. I mean, my daughter's not even three years old, and she has a piggy bank. She has money, okay, like, and her, her aunts and her, you know, Grandma have handed her cash, you know, and it's like she's got her money, right? Like, everybody has some, you know, some have more, some have less. And so when you go in for a transaction, like, oh, they have a lot of money. So therefore, I want to have a conversation with them that feels very dirty. I'm just gonna use the word like it just like it just doesn't feel authentic. And that's why I think a lot of people don't like fundraising, because it feels like it's just slimy and yucky, you know, like, I want to be friends with people. I don't want to go ask people for money. And so what they forget is that there's a way to do this to where it doesn't have to be like that. You know, there's there clearly doesn't have to be a power situation, right? And

Andy Brennan: 13:31

you mentioned that at the very beginning, I like to fundraise because I like people, yeah? But I think some people are thinking, Well, I like people too, but I don't want to push them away, yeah, but we're saying that you don't have to push them away,

Unknown: 13:44

no. And the whole thing that you know, just telling you that know, like trust journey, you know, as you're going through that what happens is, is when you know, like, and trust a product or a ministry or anything that we're talking about here, know, like trust, and then you try it out, the natural next step is to actually give or to buy. So when people set up these stands to say, like, try our product or test this out, have a dream. What like, the whole intention is, is that you're going to say, I really like this. I want it. And you're going to put it in your grocery cart and you're going to buy it free trial. They don't, they don't stand there and say, Hey, try this for free. And here it's, you know, 599 and here's how you're going to pay for it. And it's like, no, like, you know, the process of purchasing it, if you want to purchase it, you just say, How do I buy it? Where's it at, you know? So it's just natural for the next step is, if I know, like and trust you, and I've tried out your ministry, I've gotten to know you, I'm going to lean in and I'm going to say, how do I get involved? Yeah, we're all

Andy Brennan: 14:44

consumers by nature. We know we are by button

Unknown: 14:47

we are. And I have to remind people too, that I'm like, we like to spend money

Andy Brennan: 14:54

mostly, yeah, my wife spent less and

Unknown: 14:58

giving to a ministry or giving to a. Charity is, like, that's fun. Most, like a lot of business leaders, the reason why they work so hard is so that they can give more money away. So when you think about like, the reason why I'm talking to these people is because they've worked really hard so that they can make a difference in the world. And if we're the right fit for them to make a difference in the world, then great, I'm going to be the first person who's going to say we're an option. We're an option for you to give to our ministry and to get involved, but we don't have any expectation that you're going to say yes to us because we may not be the right fit for you, and that's okay.

Andy Brennan: 15:33

Yeah, there's a fallacy amongst, I think, early fundraisers, that people don't give and they don't want to give, and that I'm gonna offend and ostracize myself,

Unknown: 15:44

yeah, if I do, but to that point, there are plenty of people who have ostracized themselves, yeah, and because, because they're they are so eager that they do kind of run, they run people over. It's like, you're either with me or you're not see you later. And it's like they kind of just like, hey, I'm collecting money right now, and everybody who wants to throw in the bucket great, and it is unfortunate, because they forget that it's like, not everybody is going to love the ministry or love the cause that you're a part of. And you know, I share about it in my book fundraising freedom, specifically about how I had a family member who loved one of the causes that I was a part of, and so she was like, hardcore, like she was telling everybody about what I was doing, and I was like, Please stop, like it was almost embarrassing, because I was just like, I love you, and I, you know, yes, I believe in my cause. But I kind of just wanted my family to be like, hey, I can go to Thanksgiving dinner and just enjoy my Thanksgiving meal and not have to talk about work and not have everybody involved. Whereas in ministry, I know that there's just a lot of overlap. A lot of times, your family and friends are the most excited about what you're doing. They love Jesus too, so they like want to get plugged in too. So that's great. But sometimes it's, you know, it's like there's this fine line between, this is my business, this is my profession, this is my work. And so there's gonna be a specific audience of people who are gonna be interested in what I do.

Heather Winchell: 17:09

You know, what I really love about the way that you're carrying yourself and the words you're saying is just this emphasis, like there's nothing about what you're saying that speaks to a scarcity mindset. It just feels like an abundance mindset. And it feels like not not pushing kind of an opportunist agenda, but opportunity, embracing opportunity, but not being an opportunist. And I just, I think that's so refreshing. And because I think we can get deceived into thinking that there's limited money, limited provision. We can just really get off kilter, in in thinking we have to maximize, you know, every ask or or whatnot. But it's just, I love the like, lack of fear and lack of scarcity that I hear in your words, yeah.

Unknown: 17:56

Well, here's the thing there. I mean, we have an abundance. We do really do of connections and but at the same time, we only have so many people in our inner circle. So, you know, Heather, you only have so many people that you're super close to. Andy, the same thing for you, and the same thing for me. Like, I think a lot of times when people hire me, they think, oh, Mary's going to bring her Rolodex, and she's going to bring all of her friends to the table, and I'm going to have all these wealthy friends, you're gonna give to all your causes, right? And that's not how this works. I have my circle of friends, Heather, you have yours and you have yours. And what's great is that I have the opportunity to say, Heather, I wanna tell you about my great ministry. I actually don't care if you give or not. What I want you to do is I want you to hear and get excited and fired up, and you, I want you to be able to, like, feel really, like, good about telling my ministry to your friends and to your contacts. And what happens then is you start to realize, oh, oh my gosh, I have an endless amount of contacts. So now it's like, Oh, if Heather's friends aren't interested, no big deal. Andy, maybe you have a pastor or a friend or somebody who might be interested too. Let's see. Let's knock on that door and see if that opens. But in every situation, you just can walk in and just be like, you might be interested in what I'm doing, and you might not be, and that's that's okay, so, but if you do look at it from the perspective of, I only have my circle of contacts, and I gotta go into my 10 years of history, like, I'm going to call like, kids that I, you know, played with on the playground in elementary school. Well, yeah, that feels awful. Because I was like, I haven't talked to you in decades, and now all of a sudden I'm like, Hey, I'm doing this great ministry. I don't even know if you love Jesus or not, but hey, so no, that feels awful. And if I had, and I was, I often tell people I was, like, if I had to fundraise the way that many of our ministry leaders have been taught how to fundraise, I wouldn't be a fundraiser. Because, I mean, I've always had this perspective that every time I talk to somebody, it's an. Opportunity for them to get plugged in. But I've never felt any sense of desperation. I've never felt as I haven't ever felt that scarcity, because, I mean, enough people have always said yes that I have never had to say, like, Oh God, please. You know, will they just say yes to us? It's always like, if they say no, there's always somebody else around the corner. Who's gonna say yes? So, but you have to make sure you think about it, that it's like, I have all these connections, and then they have all these connections. So you really have, like, this huge web of connections that you're just one relationship away or two relationships away, and so yeah, but thank you for saying that. I appreciate that, because that's one of the major things that I teach, because mindset, it is amazing how it can be so debilitating what you do. Because when you start to feel like I got $5,000 a month to raise, I need 25 people who are going to say yes at this amount, and it just like feels very like bubba. Instead of saying, You know what, I got $5,000 raised, somebody might actually give me$5,000 like, somebody might, actually, you know, I have, I have students who get, get donors who, I actually was just on a call with somebody who's like, we have $1,000 a month donor consistently gives every single month, right? Like, have been doing it for a very long time, and so $1,000 a month donors, like, I don't have to ask for $10 it might, you know, who knows what God's going to do. So if you come in with more curiosity, and you come in with more like, I really want to serve this person that I'm sitting with, find out where our connections are and see if it's a good fit for us to partner together, that's a much better place to be in.

Andy Brennan: 21:38

Yeah, but you have to be okay with asking a friend to think about their network. That's the initial hurdle that you have to get through.

Unknown: 21:45

Yeah, but if you focus in on the friend who is already leaning in and saying, Tell me more. Like, everybody gets into their ministry role because somebody said you should do this. Like, and I'm like, if nobody thinks you're good at what you're doing. It's probably a good sign that this is not a good thing for you. But most of the time, you got into the work that you're doing because somebody said you are really good at this. Like, have you ever thought about doing this as a profession, as you know, becoming a full time missionary? Like, have you ever thought about that? So somewhere along the line, people were leaning in and saying, Wow, oh, you have to raise your own support. Okay? And so usually you gotta find, like, listen for those people who said, Have you, have you talked to these people? Have you talked to them? What about them? Are you going into that church? Have you, you know, and they're the like, kind of those. Those are your people. So you have no I have no fear talking to somebody who's already leaning in, who's already like, Oh, I love this stuff. I love networking. I love being a connector. I mean, we all know those people were like, oh, you should know so and so. And, you know, it's like, yes, like those. Those are your guys, yeah, so anyway, but you're right. If you are just cold calling, asking a friend to connect you to somebody else, it does feel really uncomfortable. So you gotta take a few minutes to sit back and say, Why would you know? Andy, why would you want to tell my story to one of your friends? What? What would you what good would that do you? And here's what I want to say, Andy, the reason why you want to would want to tell somebody about my ministry is because it makes you look good, like I mean, honestly, it makes like, if I help that person, or if that other person has a similar mission that I have, they care about the loss, they care about a specific country or a certain people group, and all of a sudden you're like, Mary, you need to know so like, I mean, at the top of the conversation, Heather did it perfectly with me. She was like, Hey, I just was having a conversation with so and so they're starting their own nonprofit. They should know you Yeah, like, that's the kind of stuff that we do that naturally. Because, I mean, you just want to do good things for good people. You want to connect

Andy Brennan: 23:55

people to the causes and the resources and the things that they believe in,

Unknown: 24:00

yeah. But here's the thing about, you know, when you feel like you're a number, like, oh, there's, wow, there's 1200 people in our ministry who are doing the same thing. What? Why would they give to me when they could give to this guy, and he's so much better at what he does, and he's been doing it for two decades, you know, or whatever it is, it's easy to get caught up into, I'm a number in the grand scheme of the missionary game of like, every all these people are asking for money, and they're all struggling to raise money. So why would somebody give to me? And so you gotta step out. You gotta completely step out of that and say, You know what? God created me very uniquely. There's a specific people group that I was called to minister to. And whether you're doing admin work or you're doing, like, evangelism or whatever it is, I don't care what the job is. Some people are like, I'm I'm not very outgoing. I'm kind of an introvert. I sit in the office and I do the paperwork like from for me, I'm just thinking to myself that it's like, you have to make sure that you you know you can present yourself to that. Group and invite them to be a part of it, no matter what it is, but you have to find that unique niche that's yours and and find out, well, why would somebody care about this? Well, who's going to care? Who's going to care about the person who's doing admin work? People who do admin work? Yeah, yeah. Other introverts, other people who understand there's no ministry without that person doing their work, right? So it's a specific population of people that are going to connect to you, and they're not going to connect to the evangelists, you know? So you got to find your niche and then find out who cares about this kind of work and then go talk to those people.

Heather Winchell: 25:35

Yeah, I think the other thing I really love about the ideas that you're putting forward Mary is that they're not just this, like, formula for getting the funding. They all kind of require a fundamental mindset shift or alignment with, like, Hey, God created me on purpose with my own unique ministry and value, right? Like, that's something that's internal work. That's not something you can, like, bear out in a formula. Or even the, you know, Andy, speaking to what you said about how it's hard to ask your friends to connect you to their people, well, yeah, unless internally you believe this is just the good thing to do, to be like, hey, who else might want to hear about this, right? So you know, if you can kind of, like, settle into the internal realities of these concepts, not hard at all to, like, act them out in the real world, but it requires quite a bit of internal settledness, groundedness and being spirit led. You know, do

Andy Brennan: 26:30

you understand why you're doing this? Yeah, yeah. Do you really appreciate what's at stake? But

Unknown: 26:35

there is something very different for like, you know, yes, many missionaries will say to me that, hey, I have no problem raising money for the larger mission, you know. So like, Hey, give me the big scale organization, and I could sell this in a heartbeat, but when I have to raise money for myself and my family and my kids and like, and now I'm asking for personal support versus, you know, big scale funding, it feels very awkward. It feels like self service, uncomfortable. Self Serve, exactly. And so I think that that's more of the mental game that it like people are internally feeling like, I don't like to ask for money. Why, you know, like, why would somebody want to ask for money on my behalf? Or why would somebody want to open up their Rolodex to me? You know? And so this is where the mindset shift has to happen, where it's not about you like it really you have to get out of the way. Because if you weren't doing it, somebody else, God would need somebody else to do it. So sometimes I like to let people you know, start thinking about it. Is that this is a position in the organization that needs to be filled. It just happens to be filled by us right now, right? And so if you can sell the mission and say, you know the end product, the people that we're serving, that's what this is all about. It's not about paying your bills. Nobody cares about paying your bills. They care about how many lives you're going to transform. What difference are you going to make in the world? And so if you could just keep your eyes focused on that, it's so much easier to sell your ministry, because now you're not selling Mary Bologna, or, you know anyone, we're not selling the human, human I gotta pay my mortgage and put food on the table, right? It's no, this is not about that. This is about transforming lives. And in order for me to be the voice for that, we're going to have to have our salaries covered in some way, and that's how people are funding our ministry. So it's just get away, get get out of the way like you just scoot scooch out of the way a little bit, and just remind yourself that it's the end, you know, the end result that people are interested in. And

Andy Brennan: 28:35

for our younger listeners, we said this a couple times. If you don't have a Rolodex, that's just the Contacts app on your phone. Yeah, absolutely. Just to clarify,

Unknown: 28:44

Rolodex, I know I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna start talking about fax machines, you know, voicemails. Nobody leaves voicemails, right? But yes, your Rolodex, your any of your social media platforms, any of your contacts and and that is your Rolodex, for sure. Yeah.

Heather Winchell: 29:02

Okay, so here's a question for you, Mary, because you know one of the things we wanted to talk about was this collaboration that you've had with Mike. Kim. You guys worked together to launch fully funded Academy, and I know that you guys are passionate about helping people build their brand with integrity. So Okay, a couple of questions. The first is, how do you hold having a brand and it not being about you? So that's one question. And then my second question may be related maybe not, is, I think, around this concept, you guys are coming out with a book later this year, so I want to invite you to speak to that as well.

Unknown: 29:38

Absolutely awesome. Yeah? So especially when it comes to raising personal support, each person, each missionary, is basically its own personal brand. So there is a whole industry that's out there that's all about personal branding. And my business partner, Mike Kim, is the best like he is the best. Set personal branding, like if you Google to have personal brand, he's it Okay, so, and that's why we partnered together, because his passion for marketing and branding and all that, especially in the ministry space, was so powerful. And of course, I love fundraising, and know how to raise funds and know how to do that, but the two of us together, it's like, we want to make sure that there is professionalism in this industry. Because you guys, you know best that it's like, what we have to sell, what you have to sell, sell, I'll put that in quotes, is the greatest mission of all time, right? Like, God doesn't need you. He uses you right, like, he allows us to experience these really incredible ministry moments and like, you know, just miracles and the work that's being done in our ministries, and so for us, like it is so important that we we actually represent him well, and that we put ourselves out there as ambassadors, you know, for the kingdom. And so if you can actually, you know, like, get a nice headshot with you smiling, where it's like, you know, just looking into the camera to say, like, you know, I'm a good person, right? Like, you give off that vibe where you're like, I I'm smiling, I'm we're good people. We're doing good work, and that draws people in, getting that, you know, just making sure that you, whatever you put out, when you put out emails or any sort of communication, that it clearly articulates your mission. It's important that you just don't use buzz Christian words, because that people, all they hear is La, la, la, la, la, and that doesn't cut through the noise that. I mean, we all know that there are, you know, 60,000 plus messages that are coming through our brains in one day, and you're one of them. So we have to make sure that we can cut through the noise. And the best way that we can do that is looking professional, speaking professional, being very clear about what we do. And one of the things that my mentor taught me was a statement that just goes like this, it's clarity attracts confusion repels. Love it clarity attracts confusion repels. Get that tattooed exactly because we use a lot of 50 cent words, and, you know, like, especially if you've been in, you know, a Christian church for a long time, and you know, you just, you you throw out Bible verses, and you throw down some scripture, and you say some things, and you just assume everybody understands what you're saying. But it's actually very confusing. And so when you get Yes, it just is like, okay, great, you love Jesus and you're going to Africa. Awesome. You know, like people just stand there and they look at you and they're like, good on you, yeah. And then they walk away, yeah. So it that is not giving me any clarity to attract me in and saying, like, oh, I can make a difference. I can send you, I can go change lives. And so we're really big on giving language and just like helping you to speak out, like, what makes you unique and why? Like, give me that clarity of, why should I partner with you in this mission? And so that's big, you know, and that's, that's Mike to a T. He teaches email marketing. He teaches that, you know, just all the verbiage and things that you can do to help eliminate the Christianese language, get really clear on your mission and be able to speak, you know, yeah, really clearly to people in that area. And yeah, and we, we do have a book coming out, and our book, I'm, I'm actually, like, just really super proud of it, to be honest, because Mike and I have been working together now for eight years, and he and I are oil and water like I will. I mean, he is my brother in Christ, and I, you will not hear me say a bad word about him, but I mean, he's, he's Korean. I'm a white girl from North Dakota, and it's like, I mean, he's six foot something, and I'm not, you know, and so it's like, but, I mean, we are, and we often say that we're peanut butter and jelly, that it's like, you know, God, just like, really put us together in this, like, perfect, you know, sandwich, I don't know, but it's like, who's

Andy Brennan: 34:14

the sweet one? Who's the salty? Oh, I

Unknown: 34:16

am absolutely sweet. Yeah, yes. But, I mean, but I you know, Mike is like, he says it how it is, and that's back to the professionalism that it's like, and he's going to speak the truth on Don't say it like that. It doesn't work for you, right? So it's just get to get to the point and, and one of the big things that he teaches is just about like, when we send out any sort of communication by email or any sort of marketing kind of materials is that, you know, you are not boring, like nobody's gonna open up email. Number two, nobody's gonna have a second conversation with you. If you're boring, you know, like you just you're not giving me any warm fuzzies, you're not telling me like we're changing the world. Get on. Board the train's going get with me, you know, it's like, give me some, you know, like we have, we have urgency. We gotta go. There's people that need us, and you're either with us or you're not, you know, but I need to feel some sense of like we're doing something, and I'm here to serve you. I want you to be on the team. And so, yeah, it really is probably the greatest partnership I have. Yeah. I mean, besides, I do have a really wonderful husband.

Andy Brennan: 35:30

But, well, I think you have to be really thoughtful when you sit down to write a piece of communication and you're writing it not to the people that are going to read it, no matter what, you're not writing it to your mom, your dad. You're writing it to those people who aren't going to read it the second time, if they aren't engaged, so they can tell when you're just writing kind of stream of consciousness and you haven't taken the time to edit it and parse things out and really be thoughtful about things. There's only so many chances, I think, like you said, where they're going to give you their their eyes and their time, and they want to feel respected when they when they pull up that email

Unknown: 36:07

absolutely well. And that's really like when I said I was really proud of our book, you know, it's, it is that, like, it's a full book, but in every essence, like, because of what Mike does and what he teaches, and he's a exceptional copywriter, and so when he did a lot of the the writing of our ideas and our concepts, and as I'm reading through some of the stuff that we did together, I'm just like, this is as clear as day, like there is clarity, clarity, clarity, do a, do B, do C. And so that's where I really feel like this book could really transform a lot of ministries if they can get their hands on it, so when they can get their hands on it this fall, but yeah, it really is. I just understand too, that we love I don't know, as believers, we like a good book, don't we? For sure, I know, and it's like nice to be able to help our friends. So I'm hopeful that when people get a copy of our book and they can see that there's a real framework, by the way we teach on my framework, which is, it's based around the acronym freedom. And so that word is, I mean, the definition of freedom is to act, speak and think without holding back. And As believers, we want to be able to act, think and speak according to the way that God has called us to, like, if we're supposed to go to this nation or that nation, like, that's why missionaries have funding. The way that you do is because if he calls me here, I got to be able to pick up and go, and my donors have to be able to come with me. And if they're not interested, then I'm like, Oh, we got to drop those donors off, and we got to pick up new donors, but we got to be really mobile and able to go when we need to go. And that's, that's the thing I would love for this book to be like a staple book for our ministries, to be able to say, hey, I can help my friends. I can help other ministries really grow with the information that we share in this book. Yeah, it's really fun. I put out my first book, fundraising freedom in 2017 and I wrote that book with no intention of it being like a ministry book, or it being like a resource to ministries. But it's kind of funny how God works. You know, it resonated with ministries. And so that book is available right now too. If anybody does want to pick up and catch the seven steps that I teach, but it is, you know, one of those things where, like, you know you you go down the path that God calls you to go on, and he will open up the doors that he wants to open. A lot of us want to know. Like, we want to know everything, like, God, how are you going to fully fund me? How are you going to make sure that I get on the mission field? And if you just trust that he's going to open up every door, and that's just really been my journey, is that I'm like, Okay, what door is going to open up next God? Like, I literally start my days that way. I'm like, Okay, God, who am I going to talk to today? You know, who am I going to get to meet today? Who are you going to bring on my path? And it's a much, you know, like, just a really fun way to live life. You

Andy Brennan: 38:53

know what we should do? Heather, we should do another giveaway.

Heather Winchell: 38:55

We should do a giveaway. Oh, it's your book, yes, yeah, let's do it,

Andy Brennan: 38:59

yeah? Do a little competition.

Heather Winchell: 39:00

Yeah, yeah, that'd be great. Stay

Andy Brennan: 39:02

tuned. Yeah, that's really

Heather Winchell: 39:04

wonderful. I feel like we've been having a lot of conversations on the podcast that point back to, like, being present in today, looking for what God is doing today. Daily Bread for today, just really being, like, aware and present. So I think that's really good, Mary. Something I really appreciate about the resources that I've engaged through fully funded is that the language you guys use is creatively different from the standard verbiage you hear in fundraising. And you kind of spoke to that a little, but I think it's so helpful because it invites you to see things just a bit differently. A phrase I heard recently that I've really loved is break the inertia of your own knowledge. So like engage things that kind of break what you already think you know about something. And I feel like the language you guys use does that in a really helpful way, because it creates space for fresh ideas. So how have you seen the perspective and approach that you guys. Take, help people break the inertia of their own knowledge, to break forward with new ideas.

Unknown: 40:06

Yeah, I love this. I can use the example of the print newsletter. So, I mean, it's like, you know everybody you know, it's like the print newsletter has been such a stable part of what everybody has done in especially in support raising, and yet we have added the internet in the last you know, I'd be like, emails, the internet, all these social platforms we used to have, like, when I started my fundraising, you know, two decades ago. I mean, I was putting ads in the newspaper to get volunteers. Wow, you know I was, yeah, right. I mean, it's like, that was 20 years ago. I was faxing to businesses, you know, like I was not emailing people, you know, I don't even remember doing much about email newsletters until, like, really, like, 1215, years ago, right? And so I think that a lot of people have missed out on some opportunities where you're like, our donors and our people are right here, like you are a direct message away on on your Facebook page or on So Instagram or wherever you're connecting with people. PS, Facebook is the best place to still raise money. Hands down, studies show, I mean, this is where you're going to have more of those conversational messages on Facebook, you're going to be saying, Oh, congratulations, happy anniversary. Oh, you just had a baby. That's so great. And so it continues that relationship, and it allows you to kind of have those sidebar conversations through your DMS and so but, but the thing that Mike and I are really big on is is upping your communication because in in fundraising, in general, the stat is that you're going to have seven touches, so you've got to thank somebody seven times in order for them to like, actually feel like they're appreciated. But in today's world, seven thank yous just feels like nothing because they're getting bombarded with all of these messages everywhere. So we have to make sure that our our message is in front of them. And so yes, we're always challenging the system, because people are like, well, I send a newsletter letter, like, once or twice a year by mail, and we're just like, that is not good enough anymore. No, yeah, and, and you can email for relatively free. So, you know, I'm not saying, Stop your paper newsletter, because I know there's tons of churches that like to print that thing out or have it print. Have, you know, when it shows up, they put it on the bulletin board and they like to have it visible. So I'm not saying, like, get rid of it, but one thing that we do push is email communication. Because Facebook could shut down. All these avenues could shut down tomorrow, and you don't own any of it, you know, but with your email and you know, when you mail to somebody's mailbox like that, that's personal, yeah, and we all know that the mailbox is empty and it only has bills, so now when you do mail, it actually has a little bit more weight to it, because they're seeing your name when nobody else is mailing to them, you know? So exactly right? You know, they're not getting the newspaper anymore. So

Heather Winchell: 43:06

I have a question, though, because I think even I don't know, maybe even a couple of months ago, I heard myself saying, You know what, I get so many emails that I I honestly feel behind in reading those, but the paper newsletter, I at least have to do something with it. So I'm guessing you guys have a way that you coach people through that. I'm guessing that it's all in like, how they either, well, maybe it's because I've read them before and feel like they can wait. I don't know, but I'm curious what you would say to that. Yeah,

Unknown: 43:35

so we are really big on the year end campaign. So I you know, studies show that, you know, over 30% of all donations are going to come in in the month of December. And so we want to make sure that our name is in the hat with all those other organizations. And so we do a big push around the year end. You know, it's Christmas. People feel good. There's warm and fuzzies, like the whole thing. You want to send tax benefits card with your family? Yeah, exactly. And it's, you know, yep, December 31 is the single largest giving day of the year, you know. So they're closing out their taxes, you know, just they're giving for the calendar year. So, so, yeah, we, we provide support letters. We give you actually, like, really well written letters in our templated program, like, inside of fully funded Academy. So, I mean, it's like, we try and take out all of the questions of like, well, what should I say? How should I say it, and all this. And it's like, we, we're giving you the exact letter that turns into 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of dollars. We have had people last year alone, just this is December of this last calendar year. Okay, we had multiple people in our group say that they got $20,000 donations off of this single letter. Wow. And Mike wrote this letter. He wrote it for a missionary years ago because he was like, I gotta help you. He was just like, frustrated with their disability to raise funds. And he's like. Let me write you a letter, and it has continued to be like this staple letter that works year after year, and people are our students will send it year after year, and it never gets old. It's not a letter that it's like, Oh, I already got this letter last year. It's like, no, because it's a new year and a new story and a new new life transformations that happened over the last year. So nobody knows that you're using a templated letter, you know, I mean, I get a mail to me and I don't even know that they're using our letter. Like, it's that good. I was like, This is so good. But anyways, so we do, we do buck the system a little bit on the fact of, you know, just trying new things and, you know, doing things that are outside of the norm of what you may have been taught early on, but we also have to remind people that it's 2024 you know, and it's like some of the ideas that have been used were, you know, still being trained from people who raised their money in the 60s, you know, or the 70s, or the 80s or the 90s. I don't know about you guys, but I didn't get a cell phone until in the, you know, like, it was the late, late 90s, early 2000s Yeah. Like, so that's the thing we're just perpetuating a lot of, you know, and not to say that those things don't matter. It's just that. It's like we just have new tools in our tool belt that we can, we can grab a hold of

Andy Brennan: 46:20

and listener, if you're wondering, if you're listening to this and wondering, well, I don't want to take advantage of it. I don't want to manipulate them at the end of the year. Well, a lot of people only give once a year, and they're going to give anyways. So like you said, Your name should be in the hat,

Unknown: 46:34

absolutely. And you are manipulating no one. Okay, I want to give. Like you said, Yeah. And you're giving them an opportunity, like, you know, just like you said, I mean, it's like, this is an opportunity for them to be a part of your great ministry. And a lot of times, people are thinking about New Year's resolutions, okay, so think about like, oh, you know, this was a good year. What do I want to do different and in the next year? And I'll tell you, believers, their mind is going through, how can I be more generous? Like what believer says, I want to be more of a stickler. I want to give less money, like, I want

Andy Brennan: 47:10

to be more Scrooge this year.

Unknown: 47:12

I know, like they're thinking about, how do I how do I do better in my life, in my business, so that I can be more generous, that it can make a greater impact in the kingdom. Like, that's the stuff that's going through their head. So when you mail a letter at the end of the year and you're saying, here's how you can be a part of our great ministry, it plants a seed for them. And they may or may not say yes, this year, but next year, the next year, the next year, and they keep hearing from you and they're like, ah, Heather's still doing great work, like she hasn't given up, and now all of a sudden I have, like, I really feel good about writing a check to you, because I know you're going to make good use of it. You've been telling me how you've been using your money for the last three years. Of course, you're going to do good work with it. It sounds it just reinforms that and reinforces that.

Andy Brennan: 47:58

It's something you're saying that consistency also builds trust,

Unknown: 48:02

amen. Yeah, I didn't believe it, actually, until I did it. And so because I, you know, all the, all the people in the marketing space, right? They tell you, Oh, send those consistent emails, send those letters, you know? And I'm like, Yeah, whatever. I mean, you guys can attest to it with your podcasting. You know, when people are listening to your voice, you know, every week. I mean, Heather, you're like, it's so great to actually meet you or talk to you, even though you've seen me on webinars and trainings and in your earbuds in my podcast, there's something about like, Heather, we have a connection because I've shown up, like, I've just, I've shown up at those webinars, I've shown up in my emails, I've shown up in delivering resources, and now you're reciprocating by giving me an opportunity to share with your people, right? So it's it's amazing how it comes full circle, but that's also reciprocity. We can't help it. When people help us, we want to help them. And so if your emails are good and you're helping people to be knowledgeable about a geographic location, to be knowledgeable about, you know, ministry outside of your bubble, you have information that you can share that really is serving the people who are receiving your emails. So don't feel like you're always asking for money serve them because find opportunities to serve because

Andy Brennan: 49:19

people are hungry for meaning and for purpose and for their dollars to mean something absolutely,

Unknown: 49:26

yep. And we all want to be on, we all want to have inside scoop on stuff. So, I mean, like, if you're working in a in a population, like, I'll just use, I have a lot of friends who are in college ministry, and you know when they give me information about the college student today, like, you know, suicide rates or depression or anxiety, or any of the stuff that the current college students are dealing with. To me, I'm like, wow, I didn't know that. Like, I didn't know that 60% of church people leave their ministry in their college like, leave the church in their in. Their college years, you know? So I'm like, okay, 60% they're investing in their youth ministry, and then six, six out of every 10 people are gonna leave the ministry as soon as they walk onto the university campus. Yeah. But the only reason why I know that is because that missionary told me those stats right, and gave me reason to like, really be like, remind myself about like, I met Jesus on the university campus. It is a lot different today than it was then. And our college students are dealing with different, you know. So can you see how it's like, totally, you're educating the donor on, wow. How can I be praying? How can I pray better? How can I be giving better? How can I be impacting this population better, you know? So, yeah,

Andy Brennan: 50:44

well, can we dig a little bit deeper? Like, what are some other practical steps that would encourage someone towards building trust with prospective partners?

Unknown: 50:53

Yeah, so when we just talked about consistency, that's a huge one. So you, you know, a lot of people, you've got the short term mission trips where you're like, Hey, I'm just going for a just going for a couple months, and people just kind of chuck some money at them. Here's a couple 100 bucks. Go on your mission trip. Have a good time. But for those of those who are listening, who are career missionaries, like we were in this for the long haul, like we are going, we're doing this till Jesus comes home, you know, so, like, we gotta lock down. Do this seriously, I really just would take the time to do it right, to build that foundation to where it's like, we aren't like, a we got to get it done. And, you know, yesterday, because I think that there's this, like, oh my gosh, I gotta get out on the mission field tomorrow. And if I don't do this, if I don't raise the support I can't get on the mission field, and just remember, you're doing this for a lifetime. You have time to build these relationships Well, you have time to build a great foundation, to build this entire ministry on so that it doesn't fall apart in 10 years when people decide that they're well, the old people die off and the young people find something more exciting to give to, whatever it is, but, but really that the trust factor is that you actually care about your people, and you're willing to take the time necessary to get the right people on your team. And so if you look at your donor base and you say, Okay, on average, I mean, I would say probably somewhere around 70 to 80. And some people have 100, 100, you know, lot more donors that are involved. But let's just, you know, go around like that, 70 to 80 donor, you know, range that you need about. You know, 70 to 80 people who are going to be with you. That is not very many people, right? That is, that is a very small group of people that you want to do life with a select group, a very select group. So when you flip the switch in your mind to say, this is an exclusive opportunity. I am not inviting everybody in. Not everybody should be a part of my team. Not everybody should have insider information about the stuff that I'm working on. Because if I am in a closed nation, or if I am working with a population of people that are could be in harm's way, you know, I don't want just anybody to have access to this information. Yeah, so if you, if you start getting really selective and saying, Okay, this is the kind of person I want on my team, and now you're on the hunt for that kind of person, you will, you will do the work necessary to build the trust, to build the relationship, to communicate properly, because you're like, I love these people. They love me, and we're going to do this mission together. So that's where, you know, just a really practical tool here. And this is the secret. I'm going to give you the secret to the sauce. Okay, like, if you take one thing from today, like one thing, I mean these single thing that I teach, that no one else teaches, that what Mike, Mike Kim and I teach in fully funded Academy, that no other sending organization is teaching, is the team. And I'm not talking about the support raising team. I'm talking about your team. This is an advisory group. This is an inner circle. This is three to five people. Who are you are not begging them for money. You are saying, I love you. I need you to look at my ministry. I need you to tell me. Are we communicating? Well, are do our emails even make sense? Do you know they are? They are donors themselves. They get it. And you know what happens is that when you get those three to five people in your inner circle giving you advice, you're not begging them, you can be your authentic self. You can just be who God created you to be, and just be like, I'm hungry to do this right, and I need you to come alongside me and tell me just you don't have to do anything, but just put your donor hat on and look at it. From Hey, I'm a busy guy. I got family, I got friends, I got stuff going on. I got my church and and you just tell me what's working, what's not, what's resting, you know, and I'll tweak and start to make modification based on these three to five people's insight, because they're the ones. I want to replicate. They're the ones I want more of, right? And so if I speak their language, like you said, you know, like, a lot of times, people back to my college ministry friends, who did they hang out with

Heather Winchell: 55:13

college students?

Unknown: 55:15

I mean, like, all their friends are poor college kids. Like, they're like, like, This is who I hang out with all day. Like, you know, youth group people are like, Oh, I work in a foreign country that's very poverty stricken. I don't hang out with rich people. So like, how would I know what to say to them or how to connect with them? Because I just, I have totally immersed myself in this new culture and this new environment. So you need three to five people who are immersed in that circle, in that environment. They're corporate people, they're movers and shakers, they're networkers. Money is they're donating to lots of charities. You're one of many that they give to. So they're in that and so they know how to speak to that group, and they don't. They can be their authentic selves, and you're just genuinely saying, Tell me more. Tell me what you think

Andy Brennan: 56:07

it sounds like every missionary needs a personal board of directors. Yes,

Unknown: 56:12

that's exactly what it is. Yeah, but it's not now, I do notice that a lot of a lot of missionaries do have some sort of group and but it's usually based on theology, based on like, these are people who are mentoring me from a like, a biblical standpoint, like, these guys are praying over me. They're mentoring me, whatever. And I'm that's not the group we're talking about. Like, if you have that group, I thank you. I'm like, I am so glad that you have that group of people that you can talk about ministry, you can say, this is tough. This is hard. You know, maybe my marriage is struggling, or maybe I'm struggling with the language. You know, like a lot of times, sending organizations will provide that kind of resource, or you just create it for yourself, just because you're in ministry. You know, having a mentor is is the thing to do, right? So, but when it comes to money, all of a sudden we're kind of like, nope, go do that on your own. Yeah, go figure it out on your own. Go ask people on your own. And what I'm saying is just grab hold of the very thing that we do in our spiritual lives by having spiritual mentors grab hold of that in the financial side of it, and just have people speaking into your finances, have them look at the numbers and give you a really good gage on Is that, am I asking enough? Am I asking too much? You know what? How can we do this better? But yeah, it's absolutely like a board of directors. But I think that it's important to have a group on your mission side and then a group on your fundraising side, because they're completely two different parts of your ministry.

Heather Winchell: 57:45

It's great, yeah,

Andy Brennan: 57:47

great tip. That's the secret.

Unknown: 57:49

But I'm telling you, the people who have the advocates, the ones that are like, I'm gonna go walk you know, I'm gonna open up doors for you, because I you gave them a title like you gave them like you're on my team, and so then they feel like, oh, I have I can, like, actually go speak on your behalf, to go open up some doors for you. It empowers them to actually grab hold of your fundraising, like your goal, your support, raising goal, and say, Let's go do this together. So instead of you feeling like I got to do this alone, but the ones who actually grab a hold of this idea, they skyrocket in their support raising because their mind It just shifts. It's not about me, it's about us. It's about this team of people doing this together to get us on the mission field, but we're doing it together. So what kind

Andy Brennan: 58:37

of a person are you looking for in that kind of financial role? Do they have to be a hedge fund manager?

Unknown: 58:42

No, no, no. And trust me, like I think there's lots of people who would be like, I'd be super uncomfortable with somebody like that on my team, but there's others here that are like, I would love to have somebody like that on my team, because I love I can speak that language. That's how I was raised, that's the people that I was surrounded with. So there's not a right or wrong answer to this. What I'm looking for is really, like, I said, a model of what you want to replicate. So for those of you who have been raising funds for a while, look at your database of the people who are on your support team already and say, and just look at them and be like, if I could replicate anybody on this list, who would it be? And maybe it's somebody who's like, they pray for you. Like they they genuinely pray for you. They message you. They respond to your emails when you come to visit and you're wherever, when you're in the same space together, like, they give you hugs that like, like, it's not just a here's some cash. Good luck with your life. It's a like, no, like, we genuinely love you and want to see the your mission come to fruition, you know? And so when you think about those names on the list, and I have many students who say, like, I got people who give a lot of money, but I actually don't want any more of those kind of people. Like, I mean, we have one of my students single. Email, she had donors on her list who were like, Why do you need your own house? Like, why can't you just have enough? Like, can't you sleep on the floors? Share a room, have a couple roommates, you know? And why do you need to take time off? It's not like you have kids, you know. And it's just like, like, irrational behave in certain like, yeah, it just like, it didn't even make sense, that it's like somehow, because, you know, if you're married, you you can take a vacation with your family, but if you're not, Oh, I'm sorry, no vacation, you know? And so that's the kind of she just wanted to start removing some of that kind of attitude off of her donor list, because it didn't align with who she was, and so she actually wasn't the top donors. It was, Who do I want more of? Who has the attitude, who has the heart for our ministry, who gets what we're doing? And yes, they believe in us, and they want to financially give, and they have given, you know, so but sometimes people say, like, do they have to give? And I'm like, no, they actually don't have to be a donor to your ministry. It might be somebody that you want to be a donor to your ministry. And you're like, if they could actually speak into us, you know what? They very well may become a donor. Because they're you. They're telling, they're telling you how to, how to talk to them, and then all of a sudden, you talk to them in their language, and they're like, shoot, here's the job, you know? I mean, I have done that where people actually do, you know, they do what I say, and then all of a sudden I'm like, Oh my gosh, I can't resist your ass. Like, it is so like, it's so good, yeah, that it's like, you can't help but want to be a part of it. Because you are hungry, you're a learner, you're you're coachable, you're teachable. You want to do the best that you can. And those people are so attracted to that there's something

Andy Brennan: 1:01:47

about when somebody asks you for advice, yeah, right, you feel instantly more drawn to them and more like, I want to help you, versus if they just come right from the top and say, Can I have some money?

Unknown: 1:02:00

Yeah. And one of my favorite sayings that I put out in all my stuff is, ask for advice, and you'll get money. Ask for money and you'll get advice. When you ask for money and you say, Hey, would you guys like to support our ministry? The first thing they're going to say is, Hey, have you called on so and so? Have you talked to that church and have you gone there? Yeah, because their immediate response is like, deflect off of me and hey, there's lots of money that's sitting out there. Why don't you go talk to those people? Right? But if you say, Hey, I'd love your advice on this. What do you think about the newsletter that we're sending out? Do you? Do you read it? And they're like, you know, actually, I don't, but I don't think you should stop sending it, because I actually think that it works. But now all of a sudden they start reading it right? I know exactly, because now you're like, Oh, I really want to know what you think and if it's good. And then they start to give advice. You start to make modifications, and now they can't help but want to give more. Yeah, yeah, that's how that works.

Heather Winchell: 1:03:03

Yeah, very got some great one liners. Mary,

Unknown: 1:03:06

oh my goodness. Well, I've been doing this for a long time and and honestly, I have been really trying to tackle this, this population. I have been trying to understand the missionary mindset for a long time. Because I just want to give you a little secret in the nonprofit secular space, if you look at a 501 c3 no 501 c3 nonprofit organization functions without committees. No nonprofit exists. There is no building campaign, there is no annual fund. There is no, I mean, those are all functioning off of volunteer committees. And then you jump over to the ministry space, and the church does it this way. There's a kids group committee, there's discipleship groups, there's small groups, there's, you know, women's ministry, Men's Ministry, all of the ministries, all committee, somebody's spearheading it. There's a volunteer who's taking it, and that's why. But when you get into the missionary space, all of a sudden, good luck. Go raise your money on your own. No committee, no team, no nothing. Good luck. You got this Yes, and it's like, That is ridiculous. We would never function as a church, we would never tell a nonprofit organization to run like just, just go ask people, they'll give to you. No, you run out of contacts and you're dead in the water. Those nonprofits close their doors immediately. The ones that survive are the ones that have committees. So that's really what we're talking about here, is just do what other organizations are doing that actually works, and it's committee. Get a fundraising committee, let them look at your money and tell you what they think, so that it can actually grow,

Andy Brennan: 1:04:50

and this committee can help you establish trust.

Unknown: 1:04:54

Yes, yeah, okay, here's the other thing to answer that question. You actually get to jump. On their platform and borrow their trust, because the statistic is, is that somebody is two thirds more likely to give to you because a friend told them that you are a good person or that you are a good cause. And so, yep, so Andy, as soon as you say, Hey guys, you need to know my friend Mary, she's doing good work. They are two thirds more likely to say yes to what I'm doing just because Andy said nice things about me.

Andy Brennan: 1:05:29

I'm ready to Yeah. Thank

Unknown: 1:05:31

you, Andy. And this is our first time meeting, right? So, but isn't this interesting? This first you know, like our conversation here, you know we will leave here today, and you'll just have your natural conversations, and you'll talk to people, and you'll be like, Hey, you guys, you should know these people you know. And it's just because organic, exactly, and so, and that's what we all want for our ministries, is nobody feels forced, nobody feels like they're manipulated or that they have to do anything. It just it feels good, and it's the right thing to

Andy Brennan: 1:05:59

do. You feel connected? Yeah,

Heather Winchell: 1:06:01

yeah, yeah. Well, Wow, I feel like you've given us so many practical ways on, you know, identifying trust and building trust, and also a lot of generous extra input from your many years of experience. So thank you so much for that. You know, I am aware that we definitely want to respect your time, and so I think maybe just kind of a as a closing question. And then we have one more fun question, yeah? By way of encouragement, what else would you want to say to our listeners as they persevere in support based ministry?

Unknown: 1:06:31

Yeah? So I would just share real quick that my spiritual gift is actually encouragement, exhortation. So if you can tell I'm like, I'm like, you can do it. You got this, you know, like, so, but if you don't have somebody in your life who does that for you, I know sometimes it just feels like, oh, well, what are they like, what are they doing? But we do find that sometimes we, like, kind of hit rock bottom, and we're just like, and I don't know about you, but I mean, I in my work, and so sometimes I'm in the corner, you know, like, just like, it's heavy. There's a lot going on, and you're you just feel like the weight of the world is on your shoulders. If you can surround yourself with people who are are able to give you that encouragement, who are, you know, already on the mission field, already fully funded, already doing the things that you want done. It's amazing how that makes such a difference. And whenever I talk to people who are fully funded, who do have had success, I'll say that success in their support raising there is often an element where they tell me that they had somebody in their life that was really encouraging to them, and was just like that person that helped lift them up when things were, you know, hard. Maybe it's a parent, maybe it's a friend, you know, where, or somebody who else is doing ministry and raising their own support, but have, you know, gone a few steps ahead of you? So it's like, it does feel kind of like a mentorship relationship that makes a huge difference in what you're doing, because you don't give up, you know, and you're like, they say, I know I've been there. I almost threw in the towel too. I almost did that, but you can't, because your people need you, and I think that that is why I do the work that I do, is that I often am that person for a lot of missionaries and a lot of ministry leaders that I'm like, I want to be in that space to say, I'm here to support you. I'm going to give you some really practical tips and tools, like we talked about today. But on top of that, I'm just going to, like, continue to remind you, like, you are exactly where you're supposed to be. You're doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing, and if God tells you otherwise, you listen to him, okay? Like, don't, don't listen to me. But, like, I mean, but just the fact that it's like, if you know without a shadow of a doubt that you're supposed to be doing the work that you're doing, then you need to start surrounding yourself with people who are ahead of you that are going to encourage you and tell you it's possible you can do this. I did it. You can do it. Too. Awesome. That's great. Yeah,

Andy Brennan: 1:09:03

gotta get the easy question. You do one one, okay, suddenly you have $10,000 and you got to give it away immediately. Who or what do you give it to? First thought, okay,

Unknown: 1:09:13

okay. First thought, well, I immediately go into my rolodex of my favorite charities, like my my favorite people who have been consistent, who continue to report back and tell me all the good work that they're doing. I have an organization that immediately comes to mind, because that girl has she didn't know what she was doing, and she just, step by step, bootstrapped this thing and figured it out, brought the right people in, and she she was wise, like just wise at every turn. And the only reason why I know she was is because she continued to communicate with me. You know, she kept on telling me the story. I was watching her journey on Facebook. I was getting her emails. I was in the in the loop of, like, what was going on with Herman. Street and so, like, whenever I think about extra funds, anything that's dropping in my lap, like, I cannot help but think about her and so, and besides that, and anybody who's in fully funded will know, because I use her material inside of fully funded because, like, she just was so hungry to learn that she, you know, grabbed hold of the stuff that I taught, and she implemented it, and, you know, has had great success and so and on top of that, just as a little just kind of encouragement, is that she actually just shared with me that she has handed over the reins of her ministry to another organ, to another leader, and she's been like a chaplain missionary the whole thing, but She has really just felt called into supporting her family, and she's got kids that are at that age that really need her, and so she's handed over the ministry. When I met her, she was like, petrified of fundraising. She was like, please know if I can do anything else like and she could preach like nobody's business. But she met me, and she goes, I gotta figure out how to do this, because I'm gonna be doing this for the rest doing this for the rest of my life. And so she's like, I can't just put a band aid on it. I have to figure out how to actually do this and really enjoy it. But anyway, she we connected here, and she just told me that she handed over her ministry to another missionary, another leader, and she gave that person a million dollars in the bank. Wow. Very cool. Million dollars in the bank. And she, she spent all of her money. She she set it up so perfectly that she raised her money this year and spent it next year. So that million dollars that was in the bank is like, hey, that's your 2025 money. Wow, cool. And so you have all of 2025 to raise money for 2026 Wow. And so you're never making promises that you can't keep. You're not doing ministry flying by the seat of your pants. It's like we have every dollar accounted for. We know where our money is going to be exactly. Yeah. And isn't that incredible the story of transformation? Yeah, it is. So that $10,000 is going to go right in her bank account. So there you go. That's where I would give

Heather Winchell: 1:12:04

it. That's awesome. That's really wonderful.

Unknown: 1:12:06

I love it, yeah, yeah. Well, thank you guys. This is fine. Thank

Andy Brennan: 1:12:10

you. Yeah, this

Heather Winchell: 1:12:10

was fun, and we will definitely be sure to reconnect whenever there's more details about that book, we will put all the podcasts and other links to fully funded Academy and any other resources that you want us to tag, but I'm just really, really excited to share this conversation with our audience, and I hope you guys are as blessed by it as we have been. Thanks for joining us.

Unknown: 1:12:33

Thank you.

Andy Brennan: 1:12:37

It's not about the money. Is presented by provisio fundraising solutions. Provisio equips support based workers with flexible training, practical resources and one on one coaching. Find out more@provisiofundraising.com you.