44. From 'Never' to Now: Danny and Stephanie's Fundraising Journey

"We said we'd never fundraise—never. But God had other plans."
 
"The conversations about money were some of the hardest, but they also made us stronger."

In this episode of THANKS FOR DOING THAT, Danny and Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez share their journey of stepping into support-based ministry as a married couple. From wrestling with initial doubts to discovering the blessings that come from relying on others' generosity, their story is filled with faith, resilience, and surprising lessons. They open up about how fundraising transformed their relationship—not just with each other, but with God and their community. If you've ever faced a challenge that seemed impossible, their insights and honesty might be just the encouragement you need.

Danny and Stephanie made a pact when they got married - support based work was not for them. As it turns out, God had other plans and their family served in Peru for a decade before moving back to the States to continue ministry in equipping and encouraging support based workers. You might recognize Stephanie's voice from her well known podcast: Modern Day Missionaries.

Overall, Stephanie and Danny had so many helpful and practical offerings from their own experiences  - speaking to both what works and what doesn't! The conversation covers communication, roles in marriage and fundraising, how to tell a story well, and much more

All Terrain Marriage Video Series

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your network. Follow It’s Not About the Money for more insightful discussions on faith-based fundraising and support raising!

Get help today! Visit www.provisiofundraising.com

Follow along @ its.not.about.the.money.pod
. . . . .
THANKS FOR LISTENING!

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

I don't think we'd ever would have imagined getting the point saying like, Hey, we've we've enjoyed this. We've not all the time at the beginning, but we've gotten to the place of like we enjoy the relationships that God's brought about specifically because of fundraising and the people he's gathered around us and like our supporter dinners, or then catching up with them, or telling stories. Or there's flavor in this. There's there's something to be savored.

Heather Winchell: 0:30

Welcome to it's not about the money. A podcast in search of grounded fundraising. I'm Heather, and together with my co host Andy, we look beyond the Quick Tips and formulas. Join us as we explore the nuance and complexity of ministry fundraising, if you want to thrive in partner development, not just survive it, this is the place for you.

Andy Brennan: 0:52

Though there are many principles that apply to all support based workers. There can be unique opportunities and challenges that come into play when fundraising as a married couple. Our episode today is going to explore that very topic. Heather, would you like to introduce our guests?

Heather Winchell: 1:10

Absolutely, I would. So we are joined today by Stephanie and Danny Gutierrez. And I'm actually really excited about this, because some of you might know Stephanie and her voice from the modern day missionaries podcast, I am a big fan. I really enjoy what they put out. And actually, Stephanie and Danny together put out some video resourcing not too far back around marriage, and it was called the all train marriage. We'll talk about it a little bit more as we go through the episode. But yeah. So just super excited to have them with us today. So they actually served in Peru for 10 years and are now living and working in Minnesota, supporting missionaries. Danny is working specifically towards being a marriage and family therapist. And then Stephanie works with modern day missions in resourcing and in missionary care. And then, of course, with the podcast. So guys, welcome to it's not about the money. Thank you. Good to have you. Heather and Andy are excited to be here. Yeah, and I would just love to kick off this conversation. Could you share a bit with us about your own story of how you guys entered into support based ministry?

Unknown: 2:18

That's a great, great question. It's actually a miracle that we got into support based ministry, because when we first got engaged and we first got married, we had almost like a pact that we would never become missionaries. So I'm a missionary kid. I grew up overseas, and when we started dating, it was one of those things where Stephanie did not want to become a missionary, for sure. That was, like, my worst nightmare, like, for real. It was an actual, actual nightmare. The dangerous, yes, and I'd already been a missionary, so I was, like, been there, done that, got the t shirt, not going to wear it. I'm moving on. Yeah. So, you know, after we'd been married for about 10 years, we felt that call, and God made it very clear, and that's a whole another story in and of itself, but I think we were reluctant at first, but what else he changed both of our hearts. So it wasn't one of us dragging the other one. Danny, I think you felt at first about a week before I did, but you were telling me that you had reached out to the Lord and said, I Stephanie's never gonna go with me. So thanks Lord for putting that dream in my heart. But she's not gonna come. So there's you'll have to tell her independently, because if I bring this up and she feels dragged along, it'll be a disaster. And so he just prayed and sat with it, and sure enough, a week later, I looked at Danny, went, we're supposed to move to Peru, aren't we? That was, those are the craziest words that have ever come out my mouth ever. No one could even believe it. In my high school yearbook, my my classmates wrote to wrote uh, next to my name that I would always live on the same street my entire life. That's, that's how mobile and not sedentary, but like resistance rooted and

Andy Brennan: 4:04

resistance, yeah, sounds so

Unknown: 4:07

much nicer. Thank you, Danny. And there's the resistance to change. And I part of that resistance when we started thinking about the practical. You know, what's the logistics and the practical? Now, steps that we have to take, raising funds and finding supporters was a really scary thing. Well, it was, I think, even more for me than for you, in the sense that you'd been raised up with parents who did that. So in a sense, and I'll want to take your story. You can tell your story. I know, for me, it was a nightmare. I mean, I'm, if anybody knows, you know the Enneagram, I'm a nine and if you don't know the Enneagram, what that means is, I'm just, I grew up a shy kid. I wanted to just take care of my own needs, not inconvenience anybody, like when they passed out the happenings books in school, or the Jump Rope for Heart forms, I would start to sweat, actually in my seat, and my pulse would race and yeah, and I would panic. I. Fundraising was the actual worst thing I could possibly think of in terms of an occupation. So that was the great irony for me, well, and for me, it wasn't like it it, I didn't feel that, but then I again, I didn't understand all that went into it. So it's like a kid that grows up in your parents house, and food magically appears in the refrigerator, right? So, you know, as a missionary kid, supporters and support and all that financial piece automatically was there. So I didn't really know what went into, what it what it looked like, or where to start. And I think even where we were at and in the place of ministry that we were at, there wasn't like this deep heritage, so to speak, of missionaries, where you could reach out to one and they would explain to you, these are all the things that we have done. So So to sum it up, we felt terribly unqualified. So for anyone listening who's feeling that way as well, there, hey, we get you, been there, done that, we're not talking to you as like bros who just were born with these magical personalities to raise money. No, not at all. That's what

Andy Brennan: 6:04

I was exactly what I was thinking as I was listening to you talk. Stephanie, is I a lot of people that come across my my desk sound just like that? Absolutely, yeah. You're not alone in that feeling, yeah. Well, let's dive in with some questions here. So you talked about how you started in the fundraising arena. But is there anything else you would add to that about your your thoughts or beliefs or feelings about fundraising, and how you guys may have been like minded or different as you started?

Unknown: 6:35

See for me, it was just something that was very embarrassing. I mean, I had gone on two mission trips in high school, so I had done it before, and so it seemed like that was something that was okay for teenagers to do, but it did seem like it was something that was okay for adults to do. And so I felt embarrassed in the beginning, like and and every once in a while you'd hear comments from people like, Oh, is that something you do in the beginning? Because we were working for a local church in Peru. Well, eventually, won't that local church hire you? And sure, isn't that how it goes? And we're like, no, they didn't understand religious visas or anything. So I felt a lot of embarrassment, I think, in the beginning, like there was something wrong with asking and I was inconveniencing people. So my mindset was really off. And I think for me, it was a sense of overwhelm. It wasn't as much as inconveniencing or approaching people with the story and that excitement, because, I mean, with more time, we became more passionate when we understood what we were going to be doing. That wasn't the issue. It was just a sense of like, man, we have to have a lot of conversations, yeah, and there's got to be a lot of families and churches to back us up to make this happen. Because, you know, you start getting people excited, and they're like, Yeah, I can support you with $20 a month. Wow, that is awesome. And we're going to need a lot of people at $20 a month if we're going to make this happen. So it's just that sense of like, wow, this is a lot bigger than I thought it was, or I realized it was, even when I was a kid, yeah, and those were initial thoughts and feelings. I mean, that certainly has changed tremendously over the years, yeah, but that would be beginner thoughts.

Heather Winchell: 8:08

Did you guys have any kind of structured training or resourcing in fundraising?

Unknown: 8:15

Nothing, no, when we moved actually, I was still working for a company in Minnesota, I had been working for them part time, and the owner was he just was passionate about missions. So when I told him we were going to be going on the field, he just said, Well, hey, do you want to keep working for me part time from there, because I was working in communications and social media and branding and everything. And I was like, Yeah, let's give it a shot. So actually, that I worked about 20 hours a week for him for probably the first five years we were there. So we were okay, partially by vocational and I called her my sugar mama. That's one of the benefits of being married. Hey, I got one of those good you could, you know, you could work part time, and like, when we got to Peru and, you know, and God, worked through that. I mean, my boss was amazing, and he's actually still on our support team today, so we know that that was very much a part of how God called us. We know God calls people in all kinds of different ways, but because of that, we were probably able to get on the field about six months sooner than we would have been able to, and it was just like, I guess God was being compassionate with me and letting me feel like I was earning something now, knowing what, I know that that wasn't necessary, but it was something that I think did help initially.

Heather Winchell: 9:28

Yeah, as one of our previous guests said, God is endlessly creative in the way he provides for us, and so I really love to hear that creative story for you guys. So Okay, did you, I guess, over time engage in the resourcing that you found helpful, or how did your thoughts around fundraising change over time?

Unknown: 9:50

We never did any type of training. We didn't know anybody offered any type of training. I mean, we were just that's why I love doing what I do now in resourcing mission. Missionaries because I laugh. I didn't hear the words member care until I moved back to Minnesota. I didn't know there were places that did fundraising, coaching. I knew nothing. So now that I know that's something I love to recommend to missionaries, because I think it would have been helpful for us by the grace of God. I mean, I was terrible for probably the first five or six years, still shy, still didn't know what to say. But Danny, you really, I watched you flourish and change. I think it does, well, explain what was, yeah, well, it wasn't formal resources, but I think it was relational resources. So connecting with missionaries once we were in Peru that had been there for a while, or others who had had missions in their background, who were living in the States, or even, honestly, people that weren't missionaries, but had an entrepreneurial mindset, and, you know, you just start putting the puzzle pieces together and gleaning a little bit from here and asking questions, or at least, like, Hey, this is a situation that we're in, and kind of like getting wisdom from a whole bunch of different pieces. We people, we kind of put the pieces together and figured out something that worked for us. But there was, there was definitely the learning curve, and there was definitely that humility of going like, Hey, I don't know what's going on. I know I need help in this space. What are some of your thoughts on this, from missionaries, pastors, and then, like I said, just people that were in business, and people were really great to help us out. And we were just really honest always, like, we were very passionate about what God was doing. But also, I remember the first year we were there, we were helping my in laws with their church, at a church down there, and they just needed a sabbatical. They've been in ministry for like, I don't know, 40 years or something, wow. So we took the church for a year, and in that time, we managed to split the church with our new ideas. It was fantastic. So we went back that year, I remember, to meet with our supporters, and we're like, and this year's report is we split the church, and we have less people in church than we did, yes, but we're honest, and we still shared the great stories God was doing, but we didn't hide any of that. And because we had relationships with these supporters. They weren't just like random supporters. They were actual friendships that we cultivated. They were like, hey, that's okay. We believe in you guys. We this happens in Word ministry. This happens in ministry. We know, yeah. So I think from the beginning, the support team that we built, we built not by, you know, itinerating and just kind of picking up a lot of random supporters. And I don't mean that in a that. I don't mean that in a negative way. I know that is sometimes how people do it. You just itinerate, you get lots of different churches that just was not how we did it. So we had actual relationship, yeah, with every single person on our team or church or pastors. And when you have that, it makes it a lot easier to talk about the ups and the downs, and it just feels more natural because you're talking to them, because you care about them, you're in relationship with them. So I think that was really a saving grace for it. And then I really watched Danny, and I learned from him on this big time. He just got so excited about what we did, and it just came out of him. So naturally, he's like, look at what we're doing. And his enthusiasm, which was honest and natural, was contagious. And I watched people's eyes light up, and all of a sudden I it probably about halfway through, it clicked with me. I'm like, people love being on our team. They love giving to what we're doing. What we're doing is awesome. Why am I embarrassed about this? And it began to kind of shed off me, and I'm grateful because it really came, I think, from from Danny. So those would be a few things I think that worked for us. Yeah,

Heather Winchell: 13:31

okay, I love so many things about what you guys just said, but, but something that I just really want to affirm is, you know, Andy and I both work in resourcing people around fundraising. And really what that means is just trying to show them themes throughout Scripture and throughout God's provision throughout time. But what I love about what you guys identified is that it's not a formula and and you don't it's it's helpful to have your attention focused on, like, wow, there are markers of God's provision for his people. There are ways that God shows us he desires for us to, first and foremost, depend on him, and that he provides through community and and relationship and all these things, but, but it's not a formula. And I just kind of love that in your situation, he provided through just kind of, you know, this and that, and this person and and, I mean, he brought it together in the way that he was forming you guys. Because the other thing that we really emphasize is that everybody's journey in support based work is different. And actually we think that's on purpose. We think that God has purpose in forming us more into the likeness of Christ through the way He guides us in this, right? And so, yeah, I just really love how your experience really speaks to that. And

Andy Brennan: 14:48

if you're a listener and you're thinking to yourself, I haven't I haven't done all this coaching, I haven't paid for a class, I haven't done provision, or any of the other options out there, I think this is an encouragement, because the Lord still got you there. Yep. And your hope. I mean, of course, we want people to sign up. That's great, but your hope is never in our curriculum or our process. Your hope is in the Lord,

Unknown: 15:10

yeah, right, right, yeah. And if I could just add something, Andy, had we known of a resource like that, if there would have been a workshop or what you're describing. I assure you, I would have been the first one to sign up, because it's especially when you're a family, right? And you're in a different country, and it's month by month. It's like we we've got ministry to move forward. We're trying to be productive also in in you know, what God's called us to do? And I still have to put food on the table half a month when we moved for that it was $600 a month. And then I remember it got to a place where the monthly check was $666 and it happened a couple months and I just felt like the check was mocking me, yeah, and like this. So I remember calling, I called the missions agency, and I'm like, hey, if, if, next month it is $666 will you just keep an extra dollar, right? 665 because I don't know, something feels very wrong. Yeah, about depositing this check? Yeah, so, but yeah, Andy, I mean that there are resources out there, that there are people that can coach you through it. I mean, yeah, we could have gotten fully funded a lot faster. I think that forming to your point, Heather, I'm we're grateful for that forming, but it might have been a little bit more gentle and smoother, less abrasive,

Andy Brennan: 16:38

exactly. Yeah, yeah. Well, I love the honesty that the emphasis on honesty and transparency, and I think like that applied when you went back for your for your furlough or whatever, to talk to your people. But I think it applies up front too, yeah. Like that is, that is always that should be your default gear. Is, I'm just, I'm not going to sugarcoat anything. I'm just going to be tell it how it is. I think if we are, if we're not honest, I think that actually does damage. I think it actually doesn't encourage the local body who's supporting you back home, when they see ministry, and they see, well, these guys are fantastic. They never have any problems. I can't do ministry. But when they see us struggling with ministry, they can see, well, I can do it too. I think the key for

Unknown: 17:23

us is too, is was helping people connect with us, like the who of who we are, before they connected with the what of what we were doing. I think sometimes we feel like people need to connect with what we're doing. They absolutely do, yeah, but I would say first they need to connect with who you are, because you're what will change your what, some years will be awesome. Your what, some years might not feel awesome, your what will change when you transition and all the things that come up, but if they connect with who you are, then they're with you through all of those transitions. So if you have a quirky personality, let that quirky personality show through when you connect with your supporters, if you even if you are, like, shy or whatever, like, talk about that, and they love you because of who you are. So don't hide who you are behind this beautiful facade of all the things that you want to accomplish, right?

Andy Brennan: 18:17

I don't get to know you right behind this. If I

Unknown: 18:20

can add a verse to that, and it's one that we we just had a supporter dinner a couple months ago. It was last month, actually was the last month. Just had it, yeah, felt like longer than that, but it was a month ago. We had our supporters over to the house. We do it yearly. We gather all those that are Minnesota, and we tell them that this isn't our our opportunity to thank you, to hug you, to share a meal together, to tell stories, to pray and tell you what's coming up, and we share this verse from First Thessalonians, chapter two. I know the context is not giving but I think the context here which is relevant is connection like this bond that we have with this team that God's gathered around us, and many of them that were, I mean, they've been with us for 14 beginning, yeah, 1415, years. So it says this. It says we loved you so much that we shared with you not only God's good news, but our own lives too, yeah. And we just talked about how there's those two sides of the same coin. What God's called us to do. It's not just preaching the word, not just getting ministry done, yeah, not just putting together the curriculum or or putting on the services, or doing the mission itself. There's this process of sharing our lives and who we are, yeah. And so we were just grateful to them, of like, Hey, thank you for loving our family. Thank you for celebrating with us those moments where our girls, you know, there was a milestone that they crossed, or thank you for praying for us in those moments, we were in a really deep valley. We really sensed that beyond your financial giving, that you guys were there for us and so. So I think that's one of those things as you're describing Stephanie. It's not just the what we do, but the sharing of our lives, yeah, and then also being there, when, when, when our supporters share their lives, in their milestones, right, in their ups and their downs. And so, yeah, it's

Andy Brennan: 20:17

a partnership, right? It's not a one way street. Absolutely.

Heather Winchell: 20:23

So I know that Stephanie kind of already alluded to something about the marriage that helped her in the fundraising season, namely that your enthusiasm was something that really gave her enthusiasm. I'm curious if there are other like benefits or unique things that being married brought into fundraising for you guys,

Unknown: 20:44

that's a great question. So something that was really helpful to us is we just chose to play to our strengths, so we both have different things that we're good at. Danny is the writer. I'm the editor. So he writes and like naturally, that's how we are. So he writes the newsletters, I'll edit the newsletters. In terms of relationships. There were certain relationships on our support team, and still are where they're friends of mine or people that I'm very close to. So I'll, you know, reach out to those relationships. And with Danny, he has some that he's particularly close to. And so we just would naturally do what worked best. We're that way in our marriage, even too we say we're very non traditional, like in our house, I do the finances, and Danny cooks, and we do it because I'm a terrible cook, and Danny's just okay at finances. And so we've never felt like we needed to cram ourselves into these whatever the expectations that people put on you, aren't we just the very same thing with fundraising that we've done in our marriage. Hey, what are you good at? Hey, what am I good at? Hey, what am I terrible at? And we just divvied him up. And it's really nice to not have to do it all on our own. I'm that's been really helpful. Yeah, I love the way you said that. I'm picturing our last supporter dinner. Another way of looking at that is, I like talking to the group. I like a lot of people around I like, like a party. I like to tell a story. I like to get people in like they're in the midst of what's happening, and you're very much one on one, yeah. And so, like, if you were to see us in in a formal support raising mode. You'll see Stephanie really engaging one on one with certain people, and then I've got like the group of like four people around, and I'm telling that one storytelling and I'm telling another story from the last mission trip or this church that we were just down and and get everybody hooked. So having both of those, I think is a benefit to marriage, because I don't know, I think if it was, I was being asked to do more of the one on one, I'd be looking over my shoulder and going, like, but what about that person and that person? So

Andy Brennan: 22:52

Stephanie's the nine and Danny's, I'm a

Unknown: 22:56

two, okay, two wing three. So he's got his sparkly three side that comes out in those

Heather Winchell: 23:03

that's great. I'm curious. You know, you guys seem pretty self aware as to your strengths, and maybe the things that wouldn't be strengths. Are there any other assessments or resources you had in figuring that out, or did you guys just kind of come into marriage with with a lot of awareness around that

Unknown: 23:21

both of those things. So we are both communication majors, and not like in a media communication way, but like in group communication, interpersonal, interpersonal, family, all those things. That's what we studied, both of us in college. So we've always been fascinated by that. We've also been very introspective, and then we've also always been very active at getting to know ourselves. So we've done, I'm certified as an Enneagram coach as part of the things, but I do. We've done Myers, Briggs, we've done, you know, disc we've done like, I feel like all of them working genius. I mean, you name it. I feel like we've taken it. I'm fascinated by all of it. So, yeah, I feel like we know who we are still learning, and then we know who each other is, and we continually lean into that on a regular basis. So I think it's great when people get to know more of who they are and lean into it, because it does. It makes you more aware of your strengths and weaknesses and really take advantage of them. Yeah.

Heather Winchell: 24:20

Okay, so now, you know, we answered like, how was it helpful that you were married? In fundraising, were there any unique obstacles or challenges because you were married?

Unknown: 24:31

I have to be honest, I don't know that there were. For me. I think the only challenge would be just like, making sure we didn't overlap, or that we like, did you reach out to that person? Did you reach out to that person? Like, making sure that we didn't assume one person sure did something on the things that were less clear. Honestly, for me, at least from my perspective, it's been super helpful, and we've seen it in the stories of so many others as well. So while we were in Peru, we kind of oversaw the. Missionary staff there at the church that we were serving, and there was a mix of families, and then, you know, single missionaries. And it was always so much more difficult for our single missionaries to fundraise than it was for families. And I don't, I mean, I have some hypothesis on perhaps why that was, I mean, nothing that I've read about it, but I just I feel like people back in home countries or from churches that send people when they see a family they see or they, I don't know, intuitively know that there are needs there, their needs raising kids and travel and and I don't know, maybe it feels a little bit more stable to them, whereas with, I don't know, single missionary, it just took them a lot longer and a lot more work to get that piece done. So I remember even encouraging them and having those conversations, being grateful in my own heart, I'm like, Oh, I'm so glad when I got called to the mission field. I got called as a married yeah, I'm married now, and we can see some married people struggle with fundraising. I think sometimes when one would assume the other person was doing all of it, or if they hadn't divvied up their roles very well, there could be frustration, or if one person just felt like they were terrible at it, the other one's like, Oh, I'm doing all the work. So it's not to say that that's going to be easy for every married couple, by any means, but I would say to a couple who's struggling with it, like, really sit down and write down the list of all of the things that need to be done and consider what is, what's my best, what's my worst, you know, and if something's both of your worst, then have a conversation about it and take turns. It's kind of like no one loves scrubbing the toilet. Loves scrubbing the toilet, so somebody's just got to take that, you know, yeah, some of those, yeah, but there's just going to be some things that are naturally easier for each of you, and so just lean into those. And I think it's a lot of communication too. Like, we really talk about it and, like, check in. And even with the stuff that like Danny has ownership over, I'll still touch base with him on it and be like, hey, you know, I know you, you kind of look at what comes in each month, but show me what's going on. So I know what's going on too. And we do that with our with our household roles, too. So Danny predominantly cooks, for example, but I still cook once in a while. I do the finances, but I still make Danny very aware of what's going on in her finances. Sure. So I think when you even when you divvy up roles, you never want to 100% let go of that role. You still want to be involved. Like, there's been times where I've kind of looked over the list of what came in that month and I'm like, Oh my gosh, did you notice this one? We got to reach out to that person. He's like, I missed that. And so it is good to have that second set of eyes, I think, and then it helps you keep keep you connected. Because I can be like you just wrote an awesome newsletter. I can affirm him in what he's doing, and he can affirm him like, Thank you for reaching out to that supporter that was really significant. So as you divvy them, it's not a perfect slice, right? It's still staying connected in those spaces, yeah. So I guess the question that you just asked, I we can't find one. We just gave you more, yeah, more benefits to being married, yeah, yeah.

Andy Brennan: 28:08

Was there ever a point before you realized you weren't good at finances, or did you just come in knowing that I'm just gonna hand this over to Stephanie?

Unknown: 28:17

Yeah. So we got married really young, and I was, I was a mish kid, so I didn't grow up with, like, working at a fast food place, or like, doing babysitting gigs, or, like, I don't know what, what? No kids back in network and third world countries. No, no, the parents, the adults need the jobs. Yeah, unemployment so high that, you know, companies or people are not looking to hire teenagers when they can hire, you know, grown adults with families, yeah. So I never had money to manage outside of, like, birthday money, that sort of thing. But you learned all the practical skills in a household that I hadn't learned because my mom just did everything because she told me I was too slow. She was like, Ah, I'll just do it. I can do it faster. Yeah. So we came in with different skill sets when I got when I got to the states, and I was in college, and I have my first checkbook, and I have a bank account, and I have a part time job. It was your mom, so my mother in law is when I remember sitting me down and teaching me how to, like, balance a checkbook and manage all of that. Okay, and so I wasn't, I wasn't really good at it. And then we got engaged. And once we got engaged, I was like, Yeah, I'm just going to give you my paychecks. And so we made a joint account, and I deposit everything in there, and I'm like, just let me know how much I can spend and a full understanding of it. Now, like, if Peru, the bank system was really tricky and they wouldn't, you kind of did more of our finances actually. You know what? I would say that, yeah, in Peru, you did do our finances, because it was, it's just kind of machismo in the banks, and they wouldn't let me. Well, okay, so I did the function of going to the bank and doing the banking, but the finances and like the strategy and like the savings and the. Budgeting. That's always been you, yes, but I would say you took a bulk of it right there in that season, kind of like when the girls, when our daughters were little, and you were working full time, and I was home with them those first couple years. Even though I'm not a great cook, I did so those roles, I think, also have to be flexible, because sometimes you're in different seasons, and you're like, all right, I'm gonna do the thing that I'm not necessarily good at, because you can't do that right now. Maybe a spouse is ill, maybe there's a job change, maybe there's something dramatic where you have to switch that up for a while, and that does become challenging because you get used to the other person doing it. I believe God gives you grace in those seasons to do

Heather Winchell: 30:35

it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That sounds really helpful. And it sounds like listener, whether you are currently married or not, it could be really helpful to invest in some different assessments that help you have awareness, like StrengthsFinder. And actually, I'm remembering some conversations we had from last season, or maybe even the season before, we talked together. Yeah, it does blend together, but we we talked with somebody about utilizing your strengths in fundraising and your Enneagram like wiring, that was fun. Yeah. So actually, those things really can come to beer, practically, in in the way you go about this. So I feel like that's and honestly, just watching you guys and seeing how well you communicate and kind of like, run in your lane, knowing that you can jump into the other lane when and if needed. You know, it's just, I think it's, a no brainer for people to to invest in that kind of knowledge. But, you know, one of the reasons I really wanted to to bring you guys on specifically together, was because of this series that you put out all terrain marriage, and just really how helpful I think it is, and for the listener, you know, it's a video series focused on equipping and strengthening marriages on the field, and I mention it again now because you guys put forward some really great principles for navigating whatever may come while maintaining a strong marriage, and I'd like to invite you to apply some of those principles to the shared experience of fundraising. So are there any particular practices or principles from that series that stand out to you as most helpful in the fundraising space or in living on support?

Unknown: 32:05

Yeah, that's a great question. The one that comes to mind that would specifically be applied to fundraising would be that of narrative like that. That last piece of of the four different words that we use is narrative, and I think it's very important for a person that's on, you know, fundraising, to know what the story is, what's their story, about how God called them. Again, this is not just something that we just came up with on our own, like God's called us to do something, and he's with us, and he's asking us to invite some others along with us. I'm not trying to get something from someone, I'm trying to invite someone, include someone, offer them a partnership. Andy, like you had mentioned, yeah. And so having the story straight, I think, because you know, the story for us started with like anxiety and embarrassment, a little overwhelm, like this piece, what are we going to do with this? And if we weren't careful, the story could have, you know, persisted throughout our whole time overseas, going like, Hey, this is just a really tough thing. And, like, it's a martyrdom, and I don't like it, and it's just awkward, and I'm really terrible at it. I mean, if that became our story, we're just really terrible at this. I don't think that would have been helpful. Yeah, so when we talk about narrative, we're just talking about the stories that we tell, and those can be the stories that we tell ourselves, the stories that we tell each other, the stories that we tell our children, the stories that we tell our supporters. And it's really important. And we talk about an all terrain marriage as one of the four components, like you said, Danny, and it comes from a book on transitions by Bruce Feiler. And he talks about how there's different types of narratives, there's different types of stories, and there is one that's ascending, and that is the story that someone will tell of how they went basically from rags to riches, American dream, yeah, like we started out with nothing, and look at what we've done now. And so that's the story that they share. Then there's the descending story, that is the story of how we used to be the family in this city, and we owned everything, and then we grandpa was the mayor, and, you know, we were this, and now we have nothing. And so they go in one direction. And then the most healthy kind of story that he talks about is called oscillating. And if you think of oscillating, it's just one of those pictures, like a sound wave. It goes up and down and up and down and up and down. And that's a story of resilience. That's a story of how, like, I remember when we lost it all, and then look at God came in and he provided, and then your dad got sick and almost died, and then God brought him back to life. It's these stories, and it really they reflect life more accurately, because in life, we have ups and downs for the for the most. Most part, we have stories of victory and we have stories of loss and grief, and they say those are the healthiest types of stories to tell children. They raise the most resilient children when you share them. And I really think they're the most honest stories to share in a mission space, too, because sometimes as missionaries, we feel the pressure to share consistently ascending stories. Every year it's getting better warmer, people are coming to know the Lord. And you know what the reality of that is, no missionary is living that life, right? There is no missionary intense pressure on that too. Oh, who's living in this constant up curve? Right? We have up years. We have down years. And so when we can be honest about those, with ourselves, with each other, and with our supporters, I think it feels honest to them too, because they know there's something in your gut when you hear somebody who only shares about the most amazing things and trend setting, record breaking, I mean, when you hear those words, and that's all you hear, breakthrough and miracle, and when that's all you hear, right, something in your gut knows it's not true. And what are they hiding? And those are the people who all of a sudden one day, because they've been, you know, hiding and stuffing everything for forever, they're the ones you see blow up and they leave the field, or their marriage implodes. So I think ascending stories from missionaries are dangerous. It's fancy. I would say it is fantasy. So good way of saying it honest in your stories, celebrate the wins and also be honest about the lows as well. And again, if you're in relationship with your supporters, they will be glad to walk through that with you.

Andy Brennan: 36:33

I love that stories of resilience, yeah, yeah. Honesty comes back to the vision. Needing to be clear on your vision,

Heather Winchell: 36:44

yeah, well, and what, and what we believe, the stories we tell ourselves, the stories we tell other people, really important. You know, Danny, like you said, if people are continually affirming to themselves that they're no good at it, they're not going to be. You know, I mean, our brains are so complex and also so so simple in that, really what we feed them can take root, you know.

Andy Brennan: 37:07

And I wonder, Stephanie, like you mentioned on the top of the show that when you were first getting started, like fundraising was embarrassing. So I wondering if there was an early narrative that was maybe even subconsciously adopted that asking is embarrassing.

Unknown: 37:23

And I think that's even kind of an American thing. I mean, for people who are listening, who are, you know, Americans, it's that whole pull yourself up by your bootstraps, for sure. And I need to do this myself. And I mean, some came externally from people asking when the church would hire us and we would have to stop support raising. And we're like, that's not like a thing like that doesn't happen, right? So we ought to religious visa. So, I mean, some was external, but I think the majority of it was internal. I think some of it certainly was personality. My personality is one who would like to take care of things on my own, but I don't want to blame it just on that. I think some of it's just, I don't know. I must have internalized that somehow. I mean, in my family, we're all very hard workers, and we believe in accomplishing things, and so I think it's just a mix of nature, nurture and all of the all those things together. Not that my my parents never taught me that I couldn't ask for help by any means. My dad's like an Enneagram too. He loves helping people. But, you know, I don't know. You just don't always know where those stories come from. You just have to recognize that they're there and go all right now, what now? What am I going to keep believing that? Yeah, yeah. I think that Andy's point is recognizing that there, there's something behind the narrative that we have right now, and maybe just getting a little bit curious about that, yeah, and then allowing God to change it, like in showing us that no this, this story that I have you on, is a beautiful one. Yeah, and it's not just about you and your family and what you guys experience. It's about you inviting others along, like I need those families and I need those people to know what you're doing, to add some purpose in life to what they do day to day, and don't write. Danny, I think I had to get curious about it, because if I stayed in the place of embarrassment, not only was I hurting myself, not only were they hurting our family, but I was hurting our support team. I mean, if I was just talking to a young person the other day who resists getting help, he's like, I don't know why it's so hard for me to accept help from people. And we talked about that, how hard it was for her, but how hard it was for the people in her life who wanted to bless her. I told her. I said, Okay, I want you to picture right now that you are with a small child, a small child who is crying and she loves small children. Imagine that you go over to her, and you pick up this, this little girl, and you put her in her lap to comfort her, and she pushes against you and runs away and pushes you. And everything in you is aching to provide comfort and help, but she won't accept it. I said that that's, in a sense, what you are doing when you have people who want to be there for you, who. Want to help you, not just in those hard times, but in the good times too. They want to be a part of your story. And it feels wonderful when somebody accepts your help and wants you to be a part of it. And so I think when, when I was able to again, see Danny do that and watch people respond to him, that was when it clicked for me, like, Okay, I cannot let this embarrassment hold me back anymore. I need to let this go. Like you said, Danny, let God do a deeper work in my heart to get rid of whatever this is, because it's not from him, that's for sure.

Andy Brennan: 40:30

And God has asked people and wired people to be generous and to give. Yeah, and if you don't give them the opportunity, then they're not You're not letting them fulfill what God is asking them to

Unknown: 40:41

do so, right? Andy, people have some people the gift of generosity. It's like their primary gift God's given them, right? How awful if they can't find people? Yeah, you know, to be a part of that, to let them express it.

Andy Brennan: 40:52

The other thing that stood out is, don't, but don't assume that your narratives are true. Yeah,

Heather Winchell: 40:59

that feels which is, which is why I think it's really important to be in community, or to have people safe, people you can, like, share your narratives with. And, yeah, you know, obviously marriage, hopefully you can be that for each other, but if you're not married, to have people that you can, yeah, you can speak and they can reflect back with the narratives they're hearing. You know, I am curious, guys, it doesn't sound like the reality of support based work, living cross culturally and fundraising was necessarily a strain on your marriage. Maybe, maybe that's not a fair statement, but, but I'm getting the sense that actually, you guys were really well equipped to navigate that well as a team. I know that that's not always the case, and that living in high stress environments with, you know, living on support, that it can actually be a pronounced stressor to marriages. And so I guess I would just love to hear if you guys, you know, from your experiences or from your training, Danny, if you had any practical encouragement for people that find that the reality of living on support is actually cross culturally, yeah, or or No, even domestic, domestic, yeah, I suppose that that reality is maybe harming the marriage. Maybe that's not the best way to say it, but problematic on the marriage.

Unknown: 42:09

Yeah, right. It's adding stress and pressure. You know what comes to mind, as I was hearing you describe that is what may be adding the stress and pressure, and a little bit of that tension is like a negative narrative about finances themselves. So forget the mission field. Forget ministry, like I'm thinking of a couple, perhaps, where they grew up a little bit with, like, a poverty mentality, yeah, where you know this is good enough for gospel, or if we're working for the Lord, we shouldn't have anything. And then so now they're fundraising for their family, but then one in the relationship is using everything for everyone else, and so there's this huge effort on behalf of the couple to raise support for their family, but the family doesn't benefit from it. It all goes out and it's just like this, I guess I don't want to say toxic generosity. Is that a thing, but like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm giving everything. We've known couples like that who gave away stuff they needed to feed their own kids on a regular basis, and so their children lacked education, lacked food. I mean, it was, yeah, yeah. And so then you have one in the marriage. It's like, this is not fair. Like, why we're making this effort and raising funds, and it's like our family is suffering. We don't have what we need, right? And so, yeah, I think again, addressing the narratives, that's it. What? What do we believe about finances, and if God's calling us to do this as a family, what's reasonable? Like, like, is health insurance reasonable? Is vacation time? Vacation time is savings, is like, a retirement fund, right? Are these things reasonable? Because that might help alleviate some of that stress, right? We're just like, like, we're not putting our budget at the bare minimum, just so that we're surviving right, or even a budget that both can feel like, hey, it makes sense for family with growing children. You know, as a couple, we're growing older, not younger, and there's going to be a moment where we need to be able to, you know, make things work. So I, I guess that's what comes to mind, again, narratives and in getting curious about them, especially the negative ones, that's a great point, like, the way you manage your finances does not suddenly become this whole new thing when you go on the mission field. What I mean by that is the way you manage your finances a married couple before you go is probably going to be pretty similar as to how you manage your finances when you go on the mission field, right? So if one of you is a spender and one of you is a saver before you go, it's not like that's going to magically change once you go on the field. So if you have financial issues in your marriage beforehand, right? You're going to have them there too. And so for people who have not gone yet, it would be time. To invest in getting on the same page with that before you go and while you're there, if those same issues are persisting, it's getting help, yes, with fundraising, but it's also getting help with learning how to manage finances. So maybe it's signing up for, you know, like everybody does the Dave Ramsey classes like something like that, or, you know, finance small group. Or getting help. That's it's good to get help for finances that are specifically related to missions, but also it's good to get help generally for finances. As a married couple,

Andy Brennan: 45:31

we have an impressive tendency, I think, to idolize almost anything as so true, right? And I think one of the idols can be like Thriftiness is next to godliness. And not that we shouldn't be good stewards, of course, of our money. But I think if the budget is ultimate over a ministry fruitfulness, I think that's a problem when you're prioritizing cutting costs and keeping your costs as low as possible, versus like we want our kids to be healthy and thriving and sustainable in this place, there's expenses associated with that.

Unknown: 46:11

Yeah, and I will say, I love that. You brought that up Andy, because there were some tensions that we had, not necessarily in fundraising, but in how we spent our money. I would say because Danny tends higher toward generosity, and I tend higher toward saving, or, you know, well, saving basically, yeah, and so there were times where Danny would want to do really big, huge, generous things. I mean, in all of our marriage, and once we got on the mission field, and I just felt like, if we do that, then we won't have enough. So those would be areas of tension where we had to have conversations. And sometimes it would be like, No, let's step out in faith, Danny, and let's do that. Or sometimes I would be like, yes, let's be generous. But that amount that you're mentioning is way beyond what I feel like God is asking us to do. Could we do half of that? Yeah. And then there were times where I'm like, No, this is not the moment. And then he's time. There's times where he's like, yes, it is the moment. And then we've now shifted since then where I think generosity has grown hugely in my heart, and so we don't have that in that same way. But yeah, that would be, you know, it's interesting. We should say that, because it reminds me of that moment where we crossed over and we got fully funded. We had been on the field. Like I said, we started with like, $600 a month, and that was not enough for a family no of four in a metropolitan city of 10 million people, like Lima Peru, yeah, but the day came where we met our budget goal, where we're like, this is what we need to live reasonably and cover insurance and fuel and housing and education, and then even save a little bit so that we could get up to the states to do our fundraising every year. So we had met that goal. And I remember, because of those kind of conversations Stephanie, it was just like there was even a greater excitement to get back and go like, Oh, now I really want to start fundraising, because it's now, and it's no longer about our family, like our family, our needs are met, yeah, and we're transparent about this. Our organization knows it, our supporters know it. But then we began that, that phrase that we've used a lot, your generosity fuels ours. And so it was like we could have stopped and gone, like, you know what? We hit our mark. And if we're embarrassed about this now, we don't have to talk about it as much, right? Hate it. And it was like, No, why would we ever stop raising support? Because now we can be opportunistic. Now we can be generous, like we've got our stuff met, but now on the mission field, if there's like, kids that need to be sponsored in education, or, like, in our case, like there was a lot of small group curriculum at our church paid for it. We paid. I mean, in one case, I remember it was like $8,000 that we used to, like, print up all the books for the church. The church could give them out for free. That's one. But it was like those moments that we could come back to our support team and go like, Hey, your generosity fueled ours, and we made generosity a huge part of what we did since the beginning. So like something that we chose to do. And I know every missionary does it differently, so there's not one right way to do it, but we felt like because we were plugged into a local church there, serving there, we wanted to tithe to that church. And so I know as missionaries, we technically could say, well, we're giving our lives. Or, you know, we're the 10% that went to the agency or the organization, yeah, the fee that again, and that's everybody gets to figure this out for themselves, but for us, the the fee that went for processing to the organization, we that's not thing, cost of doing business, cost of doing business, yeah. And so we chose to give beyond 10% but give a minimum of 10% in terms of a tithe toward the church that we served with there and then our goal was to give beyond that, to sow into special projects, to buy small group curriculum, yeah, to sponsor pastors to come to some of our conferences, conferences, I would agree. Danny, it got real fun when we hit that part, because we were already gents beforehand, we put. Ourselves, even when we didn't have enough, but then when we did have enough, it was like, What can we do now? And that's when I think the bug really Bit Me too. So going back to your point, Heather, if there was that tension before, and they're like, I want to really do something about this. And she's like, I don't know if we're ready. I don't know if our family's stable enough for that or that's going to put us behind. It was like, Well, then let's get to this. This number, let's get our budget fully funded, because then it's like, game on. Yeah, it's just exciting. So wait until that moment. We didn't we did? We generous before then it, but we were able to do it in just a

Heather Winchell: 50:32

whole new way, right? Yeah, you know what strikes me, guys, that actually in ministry, it's much the same. A lot of people in ministry can kind of put the family aside and just focus on ministry out here, but no tending and caring for your family positions you to then, like, have your ministry cascade out of that, right? And so I don't know that just felt like a really meaningful parallel in the realities of what you manage, what you steward, and how that grows as you are faithful. You know, I love that, Heather, yeah. And

Andy Brennan: 51:05

it just feels like the longer you guys were doing this, and the more that you were in this position of being fully funded, you guys are like a conduit for your for your donors to directly impact this part of the world. And it feels like a, like a more holistic picture of partnership. They're not just Partnering for your needs and your expenses. They're also partnering with you directly in ministry, as their funding is going towards this curriculum, for example, it just feels more fully engaged, I don't know. Yeah, well, and it

Unknown: 51:35

made for a really good transition when we came back to the States, because when we came back a couple years ago, which is a whole separate story in and of itself, but we are, you know, working now, but still doing fundraising. And with what we're able to do, we now have a nonprofit called foot rocks. We host retreats for Spanish speaking pastors and missionaries. Oh, cool. And so for our supporters, again, because they had the connection to who we were, not just what we did. They wanted to stay with us. And as we began sowing into pastors, doing missions, having retreats, they were jazzed about this new season of ministry. So we are now domestically, working as missionaries. So again, with our jobs and they we have those, and so there is income coming in, yeah, but all that extra gets to now go and be a blessing in the in the work that we're doing now. So if it really was helpful, even holistically. So Andy, to your point, there's I love this story from earlier this year, a family that has been on our support team forever got really excited about the retreats that we're doing. They still give monthly towards the mission, but I got a call or no, it was an email earlier in the year. Was still winter here in Minnesota, and her name is Becky, and Becky was like, Hey, I'd love to plant some herbs. It's March in Minnesota, and I know it's still close, but can I plant some herbs? I will care for them until the ground thaws, and then I'll come plant them in your herb garden so that you can use them for the July pastors retreat that you'll do in Minnesota. And I'm like, AB salutely, I love the idea, you know, a person could be like, Hey, let me just put another 10 bucks in your account. Yeah, go buy herbs. Yeah. But for her, it was planting, yeah. I mean seeds, and then watching them grow and tending to them, and then taking care of them, and then planting them in our garden. And then I the joy I felt when we were cutting up these fresh herbs. It went into a pasta salad, I remember, and then taking a picture and sending it to Becky. And like Becky, you are now nourishing these four pastoral couples from Argentina who are up here in Minnesota. So it's, it goes far beyond just the finances. It goes very holistic. Well. We have a person on a support team too. He comes and he cooks for all of the retreats that he's able to come to, and has just like, he's like, this is what I want to do when I retire. I just want to be a part of all these retreats. And so you could feel like, oh, people who might be transitioning back, you can feel like, Oh, what am I going to do when I transitioned back? Because I heard all the horror stories, and I know it's hard. We went through a first culture shock that was so brutal, I can't even tell you it was so hard. And also, God has made a way for us to still flourish in ministry and even deepen our connections with our support team. So like you said earlier, Heather, everyone's story is different, and don't limit God and what He can do, because if you know, if he's put something in your heart to do, I really believe he can help you, you know, bring in other people on your support team to still be a part of that no matter what it is. So

Andy Brennan: 54:39

and it's more than just raising the funds you guys are mobilizing. You're mobilizing the body of Christ. And that's that's a perpetual thing. Yeah,

Heather Winchell: 54:47

that's great. Well, goodness, I just, I feel like there are so many directions I would love to take conversation with you guys. You just, yes, fascinating. And I think the herb story is like my favorite, my favorite. Podcast story so far. So I guess you know, as we wrap up our conversation, you guys, by way of encouragement, what else would you want to say to our listeners as they persevere in support based ministry? Um,

Unknown: 55:12

I guess one other thing that I could add that's been helpful for us is we've encouraged our donors not to just develop relationship with us, but with each other. And so our kind of our theme word. If we had to assign a theme word to the way that we've done this, it's been the word hospitality, and I think that really ties into the word at in the verse that Danny read earlier, yeah. And it's kind of how we how we see it, we want to be hospitable, in terms of not just hospital Hospital in our home, because we've always invited them in for supporter dinners and gotten together with people, but hospitality of the soul, and that's just being present with the people when we talk to them, and not just us with them, but them with each other. And so we've always loved to gather our supporters together as much as we can in the different cities we're in, so that they feel a part of a team. So it's not just us and them, it's us and them and each other. It's spider web rather than a wheel with a spoke. And they come each year and they see faces they haven't seen in a year. And I think it really increases that sense of team. It's under seeing that there are other people as excited as they are. That's cool. I mean, it's that whole, it's a group communication thing. When you're somewhere and you see somebody else excited about something, it reaffirms your excitement about it as well. So yeah, that sense of team has been something that's been, I think, really meaningful to us. Anything else that you would well, I think I paused because the first thing that came to my mind, I was wondering how it would come across, because I because I know how we used to feel about this topic. And perhaps hearing someone say it, I might have rolled my eyes and been like, oh my gosh, really, because what was coming up for me was just this, the encouragement of, enjoy it. Enjoy the process, find and a way to savor, just like all the different seasons where, like, we don't have enough, and we're feeling like, like, What's God gonna do? And then we start seeing him do things. And then we start making the connections, and we start having the conversations. It's not just getting somewhere, it's that whole entire journey. And like you were saying earlier, Heather, letting it mold us and in finding, or perhaps enjoyment is not the right word, but just savoring it like like that gratitude of like, Lord, thank you for what you're doing in me right now, in this season that we're in, yeah, and just finding a way to do that, perhaps it's dreaming a little bit before we go, like, Okay, here's the raw numbers and here's the calculator, and here's the budget and here's the bills. Is like, perhaps starting with like, hey, let's dream of what that would look like to be fully funded and have enough that we can be generous where God's called us, like, what would that look like? What could we like? What would ministry? What shape would it begin to take if we were funded that way? So I don't know. I just That's great. I don't think we'd ever would have imagined getting the point saying, like, Hey, we've, we've enjoyed this. We've not all the time at the time at the beginning, but we've gotten to the place of like, we enjoy the relationships that God's brought about specifically because of fundraising and the people he's gathered around us and like our supporter dinners or then catching up with them, or telling stories, or, I don't know, yeah, there's flavor in this. There's there's something to be savored, I guess.

Heather Winchell: 58:39

Yeah, getting it good. Don't

Unknown: 58:40

be afraid to reach out for help. I mean, I love that people are connecting with you guys. Sarah provisio, we, like we said earlier, it would have been so helpful to know that there are people who can give you ideas and help and support as you do it. I mean, we did it the hard way, and by God's grace, we got there. We think we would have gotten there a lot faster had someone been able to address my issues of shame and embarrassment, had someone been able to be like, Hey, these are effective ways to communicate. I mean, oh, it would have been a game changer Absolutely. So yes, I would, for sure do that. Yeah, awesome,

Heather Winchell: 59:17

awesome. I think one thing I want to add on your behalf, you guys have said it. I'm just, I'm just reflecting it. But you didn't say it here. You said it in the altering marriage series, okay, something that Danny and Stephanie said in that series that I love and actually did the other day, is car dancing, bringing a little bit of levity into a moment, like in the altering marriage series, they just enjoy. They encourage you to have a little fun, to like, make light of moments, have a little fun. And so I started car dancing. And actually, on date night, my husband and I did that the other day, and it was like, really, really fun. Nice. Yeah,

Unknown: 59:50

that's a gift. This is a gift that there's other car dancers out there in

Heather Winchell: 59:55

the world. Yes, okay, you guys. It was like, it kind of like made a core memory for me. Me like I wrote a haiku for my husband about it was so fun. Level, I'm so proud right now. Yeah. So anyways, listener, you can also car dance, which is just dancing in your car, if that wasn't self evident. Okay, awesome. Okay, all right, you guys putting you on the spot, you have 10 minutes to prepare to give a TED talk together, but it can't be on marriage. What is it going to be about?

Unknown: 1:00:24

Oh my gosh, that's a great question. I could think of, like jet, I mean, general, I think we could do a great one on hospitality, or travel. Travel, yes, okay, I wouldn't have thought of that. That could work, yeah, because we do travel a lot well, and things get kind of exciting and spicy, and can't be a marriage. It's not on marriage. It wouldn't be on marriage, but there's like that little connection, the way you looked at me right now, made me think maybe it was, well, I love traveling, yeah, something communication related is always fun for us, like any communication topic, I think

Andy Brennan: 1:01:00

would be fun, awesome. Yeah? Good question.

Unknown: 1:01:04

Fun. Love it. And have me thinking,

Heather Winchell: 1:01:06

Yeah, well, guys, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been a lot of

Andy Brennan: 1:01:10

fun. It has, yeah, yeah. Thank

Unknown: 1:01:12

you guys for having us. Just appreciate what you do. Thank you for the way that you serve missionaries. It's something that's so so needed, so we value the work that you do we do. Thank you so much, guys.

Heather Winchell: 1:01:23

Yeah, thank you.

Andy Brennan: 1:01:27

It's not about the money. Is presented by provisio fundraising solutions. Provisio equips support based workers with flexible training, practical resources and one on one coaching. Find out more at provisio fundraising.com you