53. Church Partnerships 2 (mini series)

Episode 53 explores biblical foundations for church partnerships in missionary fundraising. Examining Old and New Testament examples, they highlight how God provides through the collective—Israel and the church—supporting Levites, temple workers, and missionaries like Paul. The episode emphasizes mutual provision, spiritual formation, and the unity of the Body of Christ, encouraging missionaries to embrace church partnerships and churches to support sent workers for God’s glory.

0:05 - 5:00 | Old Testament: Levites and Collective Provision
Heather introduces the episode, focusing on God’s provision through the collective. Corrie explains how the Levites, landless per God’s design, were supported by Israel’s tithes for their service at the Tent of Meeting, thriving and tithing themselves. Andy notes the mutual worship and provision, forming a triangular relationship benefiting both parties.

5:01 - 12:04 | Old Testament: Temple Workers and Modern Parallels
Corrie discusses 2 Kings 12, where King Joash’s temple repair fund supported laborers (carpenters, masons) alongside priests, with funds used honestly. Heather and Andy draw parallels to modern pastors (priests) and missionaries (laborers), emphasizing how financial support frees both to focus on ministry without competing.

12:05 - 31:36 | New Testament: Church Support for Missionaries
Corrie highlights the Philippian church’s repeated support for Paul (Philippians 4:15-20), framing gifts as a “fragrant offering” yielding spiritual fruit. Andy reads the passage, noting mutual provision and glory to God. Other examples include Corinth, Galatia, and Rome supporting Jerusalem’s famine-stricken church, showcasing cross-cultural generosity and Paul’s defense of gospel-driven support (1 Corinthians 9).

31:37 - 46:39 | Formation, Barriers, and Encouragement
Andy and Corrie discuss how partnerships build faith and interdependence, countering control and fostering ownership. Barriers include time-intensive church processes and fears of rejection or heroic expectations. They encourage transparency, referencing Matthew 10:40-42, 3 John 5-8, and Luke 8:1-3, urging missionaries to invite churches into the harvest and churches to support sent workers for God’s glory.

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Transcript

Heather Winchell: 0:05

What if fundraising is not just about the bottom line. What if it is about who you become and what you believe in the process, and what if the journey is bigger than you and your ministry?

Andy Brennan: 0:17

Welcome to season four of it's not about the money. Join us as we examine elements of ministry fundraising through the unique lens of personal formation. Let's dive in.

Heather Winchell: 0:30

Welcome back, everybody. We are headed into our second episode for the mini series on church partnerships, and today I'm excited because we are going to dive into Scripture and take a look at how we see partnership represented and God's provision represented in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. So if you're familiar with the original provisio curriculum, we do address the biblical foundation for fundraising in that space, emphasizing that it is always God who is providing, but that that provision can often come through our obedience. In inviting others to partner with us. Today, we want to focus specifically on God's provision through the collective, through the people of God in the Old Testament, which would be Israel, and through the people of God in the New Testament, which is the church. So I'm joined again today by Corey and Andy. Hello. Let's just dive in and take a look first at the Old Testament. So Corey, where do you see the collective providing for God's people? And then Andy, you can jump into

Corrie McKee: 1:35

Yeah. So the first place that I would like to start is the Levites. And so Levites started with Aaron. And so in numbers, God told Aaron that he and his descendants were not going to have any inheritance in their land, and that they were not going to work the land or own land, and that God was going to give to Aaron and the Levites all the tithes and Israel as their inheritance, instead of land. So which is a

Heather Winchell: 2:09

big deal, because other tribes in Israel are given land like space to own,

Corrie McKee: 2:15

right. So in the ancient world, land was considered like a safety net, because it was how you provided for yourself. Was how you survived, how you ate. It was your inheritance, what you gave to your kids. But God was saying, I have something greater for you. So in return for the work that you're going to do while you're serving at the tent of a meeting, going to provide the tithes from the Israelites land. So the other Israelites were using their land to provide for the Levites. And so the Levites were not working what we would call a normal job of tilling the earth, tending the sheep, right, all of that. But they were laboring at the Tent of Meeting, and their needs were still being met, because there was a there was an equal partnership between the Levites and the rest of Israel. So the Levites were serving Israel by providing a place for them to meet with God and to experience His presence and His forgiveness. But the Israelites were also serving the Levites by providing offerings and food. So both groups, you know, when they were both living in obedience, they were both provided for by God. Alright,

Heather Winchell: 3:29

so we're starting with the Levites. And do you have anything you want to say

Andy Brennan: 3:34

about that? Yeah, it's interesting, because the main body of Israel is offering these sacrifices, and they're worshiping God. And the priests are also worshiping God by taking those sacrifices and following all of these very strict guideline and then burning these things and doing all the things in the right way. That's their worship. As a result, the priests are provided for like, there's portions in there that says, like, this portion is set aside for Aaron and for his and for the people that are serving in the tabernacle. And then Israel is also being provided for, because when they're in obedience, they are receiving blessing. So it's this nice a triangle, right? That you have the Israelite who is worshiping God, you have the priest who's worshiping God, but there is a horizontal benefit as well, and that the priest is being taken care of, and the same is true for missionaries as well. Yeah, yeah,

Corrie McKee: 4:27

definitely. And I think it was really interesting to see that the Levites didn't just survive. They didn't just get by on this plan that God had for them. They thrived like God made sure that they had enough so that they could even tithe. So they were receiving tithes, but then they tithed from the tithe, yeah? And so that has always been interesting for me to see churches who you know, they receive tithe from their congregation, but then some churches will tithe their tithe. Yeah, this

Andy Brennan: 4:58

nice ripple effect, yeah. Well.

Heather Winchell: 5:00

And I just, I think about how so we recently, or earlier this year, we a series on soundtracks, the things we believe, and how that really matters. And it occurs to me that at any point in this for them to just get a little bit off in their thinking, for example, going back to how, you know, one of my kids would be like, That's not fair. You know, like starting with God's division of labor, and care if they kind of got stuck in this thinking of, like, Why do I have to do this? Why do I have to depend on the other parts of Israel, you know, why can't I whatever, whatever, or even with when they receive to have the thinking of, why do I have to tithe? On top of this? I'm already doing the Lord's work or whatever. There's just so many places that not just submitting to God's design would really affect everybody.

Andy Brennan: 5:51

Yeah, and there clearly was a temptation to do that, right? Well, these are people, right? And, well, there were the tribes before they had taken over, before they had crossed the Jordan and continued to route the natives in the original conquest right there was the tribes that had kicked out people to the east of the Jordan, and they just wanted to kind of say, can we just stay here and, but Moses and and, or Joshua?

Heather Winchell: 6:17

Well, if it's in the Promised Land, it's Joshua. It's Joshua.

Andy Brennan: 6:23

Came to them and said, Listen, we need promises that, yeah, you can stay here, but when we call you to fight, we need you to fight. Oh yeah, we need you to come back to us, knowing that the temptation would be, you know what I'm we're good. You guys, go do your thing. We did our thing. You guys go do your thing. We'll do us, you guys, do you, and we'll just kind of thrive. So yeah, it's clearly a human thing that we're working against. Yeah.

Heather Winchell: 6:51

Okay, so we've definitely got the example of the Levites and the Collective's care for them as defined by the Lord, and then a little bit later in the Old Testament, I feel like we come up on some other examples, some other ways to see it, with the building of the temple and the distinction in the provision for priests and even full time laborers. So I'd love to hear you speak to that and where that is, yeah,

Corrie McKee: 7:14

so that's in Second Kings 12. So Joe Ash was king at that time, and so he had the idea to rebuild and repair the temple that had been pretty dilapidated. And in this passage, there was actual money involved, as compared to land in the last passage. So they actually had a box set up next to the altar where money could be collected. And with that money, they paid the laborers who worked on the temple, those who were repairing the temple, so the carpenters, builders, masons and stone cutters. So they had a division of how the money was used. So there was, you know, money from the animal sacrifices went to the priest, but then the money that was in that box at the altar was used for the temple workers. And it was interesting that nobody worried about where the money was going, because second king 12, verse 15, says they acted with complete honesty. So all the money got exactly where it was supposed to go.

Andy Brennan: 8:21

It's interesting that the author chooses to emphasize that it's almost like this is special. This is abnormal, that people will just do this and just leave the money and trust that it'll be used faithfully.

Heather Winchell: 8:32

I mean, that is very striking, because these days, I mean, we have whole companies that come in to audit ministries and make sure they're using their money rightly. Yeah, that's a good point. I wonder if they had an audit back then, if that's how they could say it was used rightly, like, I

Andy Brennan: 8:46

wonder right, how they came to that, or that just that, God bless them. Is there anything else

Heather Winchell: 8:50

we want to say about that?

Corrie McKee: 8:53

So I think if we kind of apply that to today, we could see the priests, those who were working on the sacrifices as those who work directly for the church today, like pastors, and then we can see the workers, as, you know, full time laborers, cross cultural workers, missionaries, etc. So these two groups of people are complimenting each other, the the external, full time workers serve to build up the church by like bringing new members into God's family, planting new congregations and going out, being sent out, kind of apostolic while the internal workers are nurturing The flock inside the church. They're shepherding the church. These the two groups are never in competition with each other, like in this passage, there was enough money to go around for everyone to do what they were called to do. The priests were even commanded by King Joash to raise and to gather that money for the full time laborers, if we make a direct connection at. Something that we should see pastors doing within the church. Would, you know, encouraging their congregations to financially support missionaries in addition to ties that people are already giving to support the pastors,

Heather Winchell: 10:12

right? Right? Yeah, that's a really good correlation. And

Andy Brennan: 10:17

I think in both cases and in even in modern day cases, the reason for the financial help is to free up the people that are doing ministry to focus on ministry so they don't have to worry about in the Levites, don't worry about tending the sheep and pulling weeds. They can really focus on this stuff. And then the example of in Kings, the priests can keep doing their jobs while the laborers are doing their repairing. And I'm curious, my assumption would be, the laborers are not necessarily from the tribe of Aaron, like the priests would be. So anybody could be a laborer in this case. So that's kind of nice, that it opens up the door for participation in ministry.

Heather Winchell: 10:57

Well. And, you know, just thinking about, I mean, I we're going to talk about tent making in a bit when we talk about New Testament and kind of, like, where does that fit in? But to your point, it's, it's really a gift that, you know, the priests were able to devote their time to what they had been called to, and in the same way, the laborers were able to devote their attention to the rebuilding of the temple. Because I don't know if you guys have ever, like, had a friend or something help you with the home project, like they're just kind of doing it in their spare time. Or even if you get a professional they're, like, kind of doing it for free in their spare time. They got other things that are going on. Or even even ourselves, like in projects where we just kind of do it on the side, after we tend to our real work. It's just, it's a very different thing than if you're able to just devote yourself to that thing. And so for the laborers, yeah, it's just really beautiful that we see that as they devoted themselves to the rebuilding of the temple they were provided for. And there's

Andy Brennan: 11:52

nothing wrong with tent making, but there is a shift in maybe even just the amount of time, or the ratio of time that you can give towards ministry and to spending time in relationship, versus you have to kind of make a little bit of money right now to live off of Yeah,

Heather Winchell: 12:04

all right, so let's pivot to the New Testament. We've already kind of, you know, waded into those waters talking about the church and sending and providing, but I'd love to hear some of your initial thoughts on how we see this play out in the New Testament.

Corrie McKee: 12:18

So many I was kind of overwhelmed when I started digging and realizing how much raising support is in the New Testament. So I would start with Philippi. So church at Philippi supported Paul financially in his work, and they did that more than once, because Philippians 416 Paul says you sent me aid more than once when I was in need. And then I think that he might be referencing the Levite sacrifice, because he says he calls the gifts the fragrant offering an acceptable sacrifice. Yeah, yeah. So Paul, he thanks his partnering church in Philippi by basically de emphasizing the gift itself and elevating the result of the gift. Yeah, and he calls it the fruit that increases to your credit as a result. Because for Paul and the Christians in Philippi, it wasn't just about the money, it was about their participation in God's work. This was a true partnership, because God was basically crediting the good work accomplished through Paul to the Philippian church.

Heather Winchell: 13:33

I really love that emphasis, not on the gift, But the fruit of the gift, because essentially, that's the why, and that's what we're always trying to coach people towards having their own kind of vision and gaze locked on, I mean, obviously, locked on Christ. And then, aside from that, the why, why is God asking you to do this and how that's much better for the formation of your heart than focusing on the money.

Andy Brennan: 14:00

And this came up for me as well when I was kind of researching these topics, so I pulled this up so maybe I could just read this. Sure, for our listeners who don't have a Bible handy, or they're on, they're in the car or whatever. So this is Philippians 415 through the end of the section here. So it's five verses through 20. So bear with me, but I think it's all good. And you Philippians know that in the early days of the gospel, when I left Macedonia, no church shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving, except you alone. For even in Thessalonica, you sent gifts for my needs several times, not that I seek the gift, but I seek the profit that is increasing to your account. But I have received everything in full. And I have an abundance. I am fully supplied, having received from Epaphroditus, what you provided, a fragrant offering, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God. And my God will supply all. Your needs according to His riches and glory in Christ, Jesus, now our God and Father to our God and Father, be glory forever and ever, amen. And I was tempted not to read that last verse, but I think that's important too, because this is all for His glory, all of this synergy, all this interaction, all of this giving and receiving. And hey, listen, you're going to give to me, but you're also going to have everything that you need, all for His glory.

Corrie McKee: 15:26

That's so good. And you know, I think that 419 is such a common verse, like my God will meet all your needs according to His riches. And sometimes we take that verse out of context and we apply it only to those of us who really need the money who are raising support. But I mean this verse is in the context of being written to a partnering church that's full of recurring donors. So like we can bless our supporting churches, remind them, as they're giving, God will supply their needs, and dipping

Andy Brennan: 15:57

back into Elijah Right? Like the widow, not only did she provide for him, but God provided for her. Yeah, yeah,

Heather Winchell: 16:06

yeah. I love that. We just come up again and again on this idea that it's, it's really for the benefit of all, it's for the formation of all. I'd really like to, I don't know we've emphasized it before, but I'd like to just again, reiterate, like, how is it formational for everybody involved? Like, from what you just read, what is that? What is that doing for all parties? You

Andy Brennan: 16:29

want to go first Corey. I have some thoughts, but I think at the heart of it, and this is just cut into the chase, but I think it just it helps both parties to release control when we live in dependence and we that is just something that we struggle with in our in our flesh. I want to be in charge. I want to be in control. And it's not just Americans. It's part of the human condition. And so one of the ways that we express that control is our finances. And it just feels right to have our savings account and have our ducks in a row in our storehouses, and then to expand our storehouses, right? But it's dangerous. It gets dangerous. And I think for for the the donor and the donee the recipient, there's that interdependence that I think is, is super helpful. It's super formational, where the missionaries depending on God, but also depending on that donor, and then the donor is depending on the Lord to give as they give sacrificially, like this is I have this allocated for that new car or for whatever, even something good, for an emergencies, but I feel like the Lord is leading me to give to you that that releases your locus of control and shifts it in a very healthy way.

Corrie McKee: 17:41

Yeah, yeah, so true. I feel like it's really formational in the building of our faith, because we are stepping out in faith, tangibly, practically, watching God provide, and then we have those stories, kind of like an Ebenezer to build our altar, to look back, collecting all of our memories of how God has provided for us. I mean, I just have so many stories from, you know, my time fundraising, of how God provided for me. And now, even though I'm not fundraising anymore, when I'm in need or, you know, I'm not sure what to do, and facing the unknown. I look back to those stories, and I remember God is going to provide for me, and God met me, then he beat me. Now, right? Yeah, it

Andy Brennan: 18:31

goes back to that. I brought it up many times before, but like that idea from one of my clients. And, you know, I think every Christian should fundraise at some point, though, because it's just so humbling and so like, Wow, I can't do this on my own, yeah?

Heather Winchell: 18:45

And it just invites you into really seeing my provision always comes from the Lord, yeah, even when there's the pretense of the control of a paycheck or whatever, it's always from the Lord, it's good. So I guess maybe like thinking of the church specifically, like in church partnership. What are some ways that step that a church stepping into obedience, in supporting the laborer? How is that formational for the church? I mean, I guess the first thing that comes to mind for me is that in ownership, there's always an opportunity to see the fruit and like, offer up gratitude, praise awareness, right? Because when you have ownership of something, you're very aware of what's happening with it. You're invested in it. Yeah, you're invested. That's a great way.

Andy Brennan: 19:39

So if you're attending church and you just hear about a missionary update on a Sunday, but you have no direct connection with that person or individual, and you don't give to that person. That's nice information and that's informative, but you don't feel a stake in what they're doing and in their success, or if they're struggling, or like, that's kind of like, Yeah, I'll pray for them, but wow, no, I'm investing in that. Person, and probably the more sacrificially invested, the you know you're giving, the more invested you are

Heather Winchell: 20:05

well and even from the church side, if there's somebody in your congregation that has gone as a missionary, but the church isn't necessarily behind them, the church isn't going to bring it up as much like it will just be dependent on that person when they come home asking, can I talk to the church versus the church having ownership or the, you know, the church, I guess I'm saying church, but I mean, like church leadership, the shepherds, whomever, the missions committee, if they have ownership of that person, it's going to be on their mind to be talking about that person. Yeah, it's

Andy Brennan: 20:36

like this person is still a member. They're just a satellite member. They're just a member abroad. So I

Heather Winchell: 20:41

mean, I think there are so many benefits to partnering with the church. But Corey, I'm curious in your experience, in being sent and in coaching, what keeps people from valuing partnership with the local church or seeing it as necessary? What are the common perceived barriers or obstacles?

Corrie McKee: 21:04

Oh, there are several. It often takes more time. Yeah, you have to build a deeper relationship. It's not a one on one person to person relationship. I think you have to have more advocates to get where you need to be, you need to have more conversations. So that's why it takes time, because each conversation builds on another. You tell your Sunday school class leader, hey, I'm raising support, and they put you in touch with the missions committee, and then you tell the missions committee, and then they put you in they put you in touch with a pastor, and you tell the pastor, it could take months to have all of those conversations. So I think that it can feel a little daunting to some people, because they might not be sure where to start. Does

Andy Brennan: 21:56

it feel like the decision time is multiplied a factor of how big the church is, or how many people are in the room trying to make the decision or trying to decide on something.

Corrie McKee: 22:07

Think it could be, yeah, because there's so many people who want to weigh in on a decision, I think I've found that with smaller churches, it's a lot faster processing time. And

Andy Brennan: 22:18

maybe if you're a new missionary, you're just intimidated. If you're in a mega church, like, wow, I've seen this person on stage. Who am I to go and, like, say, can you support me? Or I can't see that being an obstacle

Heather Winchell: 22:32

well, and I would, I wonder if you know, just like people really do need to be bought in that when they approach individuals. It is a partnership. And it's not just about the money, and it feels just as important to be very bought into the good and right place the church has, as opposed to it just being a strategy to approach churches, you know,

Andy Brennan: 22:54

and maybe the extent to which you know, what is driving the church, what is the heartbeat of the church. Every church kind of has its own angle or approach. We're all gospel centered, but we all have, like, maybe this particular part of the world or ministry that we're really passionate about. So if you're aware of that, you can help them to see how your ministry is connected to that. I think that's helpful.

Heather Winchell: 23:16

And as we've talked about before, even if your ministry isn't connected to that, but you feel that you're supposed to approach them, that can sometimes generate conversations that kind of pivot and change the direction. You know, what's the

Andy Brennan: 23:29

worst that can happen, right? Yeah, the worst that can happen is they say no, and everybody leaves, still encouraged that, wow. I mean, you're still doing something good, right? And this is awesome, that part of our body is, is joining the mission field, yeah,

Heather Winchell: 23:43

and even though it's not something that the collective the church can engage in, all those individual people might themselves want to, you know,

Andy Brennan: 23:53

absolutely again, back to the big church thing. I think probably people see a big church, and they see dollar signs sometimes, and I think those churches don't. They're not just interested in writing checks, right? They're interested in partnerships, usually, most of the time. So that's true. I wonder, what are some of the other false narratives or soundtracks we've been talking about that people have in their head, like, what is preventing them, kind of, mentally, emotionally, from approaching a church,

Corrie McKee: 24:26

I think some people may automatically assume, just because they're not a member, that they won't be supported. And I really am a big fan of people putting themselves out there with churches, because I had 12 churches that supported me. I wasn't a member at all 12 of those churches, definitely not you know, right?

Andy Brennan: 24:50

Well, walk me through that Corey like, what is the process of like, walking into a brand new church? Research that you don't have any kind of real relationship with,

Corrie McKee: 25:06

that is definitely in the future modules.

Andy Brennan: 25:12

Okay, so stay tuned. Yeah,

Corrie McKee: 25:15

we go through the whole thing, how to do it, where to do it, who to talk to, all this, all the stuff. Okay,

Andy Brennan: 25:21

okay, so we will answer that question. Yeah.

Heather Winchell: 25:24

You know, I think another false narrative or perceived obstacle that comes to mind. Andy actually goes back to this, this idea that we talk about, sometimes the myth of the missionary hero. And I wonder if you are like sent by your church, if that, if it feels even more, if there can be this false narrative that there's even more on the line for you to like, not make a mistake or present really well or not dishonor your church, right? You know, and then

Andy Brennan: 25:57

that just causes you, when you do have problems, to buckle down and bury them and maintain the facade right,

Heather Winchell: 26:04

which is so counter to the whole point of the church,

Andy Brennan: 26:08

right, like into the missions too well, yeah? Because in

Heather Winchell: 26:11

his grace to us, He gave us the local body to carry our burdens, to be a super safe or mean should be a super safe space to be messy, yeah? Like in a room of people, we should be the first to raise our hand saying, I am not perfect. I do not have this all together. Yeah, I need Jesus. And

Andy Brennan: 26:31

maybe that's a message to the church. If you're, if you're at a church, you're not a missionary, you're in church leadership, just to to, not directly, of course, but even, like, be careful, indirectly, about putting any kind of unhealthy expectation on the the polish and shine of your missionary and just to and to uphold them. And I can kind of see that sometimes, if you're a missions team or a committee, and we have all these standards and these check boxes that we're like, Well, if you're going to be a missionary with us, then you need to meet all these requirements. And I think that obviously you should vet people. You can you should see if they align with you and your mission. But the shadow side of that, I think, is that the missionary walks away thinking, I need to maintain this standard, and if I don't, they're going to pull the funding, yeah,

Heather Winchell: 27:18

well, or even the best of intentions with the communications that go out to the church about your sent missionary and how you talk about how hard their life is and how persevering like there's just all these ways that feel very honoring, but can unintentionally create an expectation that they need to be ironclad, or they're right. They're kind of the

Andy Brennan: 27:40

the last thing you want is for the congregation to see the missionary and say, I couldn't do that. Yes, yes.

Corrie McKee: 27:48

Which happens a lot. It happens a lot, a lot, yeah,

Heather Winchell: 27:52

and it's a tension, right? Because I really do think that there's a space for really appreciating the sacrifices people make in glory to the Lord, right, right? Like we look at Paul and we're like, Man, I respect and appreciate that this man, like endured beatings and all of these things, like Glory be to God that Paul found him that worthy. And I do want to have a faith like that, right? So there's, there's a tension in in really like loving and respecting and honoring the good and beautiful things people do, and ultimately, not making it about them, and not Yeah, kind of putting on them, that they that they are the one maintaining that.

Andy Brennan: 28:37

And you have to be transparent. If you're the missionary, you have to encourage that. If you're the church, it has to be aspirational versus just inspirational. I want to aspire to be like that person, not just stand in awe. Because if you're standing in awe, you probably don't know the whole picture. You should be standing in awe of God.

Heather Winchell: 28:54

Yeah, that would be a really interesting thing to to parse out just the where inspiration kind of goes toxic, right? Because I was just even reading the story of Stephen, and I was just thinking about how Man, this guy was raised up, because they were like, nobody's taking care of the widows, and the apostles are like, man, we got to appoint more people to help, right? And then that's where Stephen is named. And then very next chapter is when everything goes sour for him, or actually not sour, if you think about eternity with,

Andy Brennan: 29:24

Well, Jesus physically painful. It's physically painful,

Heather Winchell: 29:27

right? But it's like, but I think reading about his settledness and resolve, or at least, you know what we can take from that, it is inspiring. Yeah,

Andy Brennan: 29:40

that's good. And I think, like, there is so much more in the New Testament. Yeah, I had

Corrie McKee: 29:46

a lot of other examples. There's like six or seven more examples, but I'll just name them.

Andy Brennan: 29:52

Yeah, quickly, yeah. That means the listener can go, go into more detail too. Yeah, some, some self research.

Corrie McKee: 29:57

Yeah, for sure. So. There's the church in Corinth, so Paul's giving a defensive support raising in First Corinthians chapter nine, and he is. He's asking them to reserve weekly ties and get it ready so that he doesn't even have to make collections when you write, it'll just be ready. There was a famine at that time in Judea. And so the Jewish world was really affected. The Gentile world, not so much so the churches in the Gentile world. Paul was asking them to support financially the church in Jerusalem, because they had this famine. They didn't have enough food. So, you know, he asked the church in Galatia to do that the church in Corinth, he writes to the church in Rome, I'm looking forward to you supporting me as I go to Spain, assuming I'm going to send him to Spain. And he tells the Roman church about Macedonia and Achaia, who have already given to the believers in Jerusalem. I think the thing that stuck out to me here is that there was cross cultural giving between churches, yes, and between missionaries. And so you see, there was maybe a rocky start of relating to each other with Gentiles and Jews, but eventually the Jewish and Gentile believers, they finally started living out this generous partnership with each other and ending missionaries from their churches. So yeah. Paul said, Romans, 1527, he said, If the Gentiles have shared in the Jews spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with their material blessings. Yeah,

Andy Brennan: 31:36

wow, yeah. And that earlier in that chapter is, is verse verse 15, where this it's like, how can they, how can they preach, unless they are sent, how can they hear? That's good news. So that whole chapter is fantastic. I'm encouraged, though, that the takeaway for the modern world, I think, is that we need the global church today, like, what happened? Why does that change? Why are we content to kind of, kind of focus in on our own, like we're shifting all of our currents internally, versus relying on the global church. So not that that's true across the board, but let's, let's re engage that we need, we need our brothers and sisters. I think, I guess, what I see a lot of times is in the American church, we can be a little bit insular, myopic.

Corrie McKee: 32:23

Yeah, so true. We My Church recently was planning to send a team, a short term team, to Poland, and the church there were working with national so they're not American missionaries, and we were going to bring a financial gift for them, and they said, You know what? Just don't we appreciate the offer, but please don't, because we really want to have our congregation learning to be self supportive. But we want your we need your people. Because I guess people are attracted by Americans coming, so they want to come and practice their English, sure, with the American so to them, that's the gift, yeah. And, you know, they would, they would rather not be like, just getting money all the time from American churches.

Andy Brennan: 33:15

That's so good, because that can foster, like, an unhealthy dependence on the American church, right? Because my brother served in Mexico for eight years, and what he saw was, I love short term missions. In this scenario, a local church would kind of notice, well, the paints kind of peeling on the church. Maybe we should do something about that. Well, why should we? There'll be another short term group from America looking for something to do. We'll save it for them. It's reasonable, but it fosters a lack of ownership. And so I love that. That's what that Polish church was saying. That's great. What other passages came to mind real quick,

Corrie McKee: 33:59

the passage that talks about in First Corinthians nine, where Paul's giving his defense of support raising, he talks about receiving a living from the gospel, which I think is a really interesting thing to think about. The church had been accusing him that he was preaching the gospel in order to make money. And so, you know this goes with your you brought up tent making Heather. But you know, Paul is alluding to the Jewish priest who serves in the temple, and he gets his food from the temple. And then he says in verse 14, in the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. And I wondered, that's a whole conversation in itself. What does it even mean to receive a living from the gospel, you know, and being confident as a missionary that that's what you should be doing, you know? And

Heather Winchell: 34:57

I think you know, you and I were kind of having a psychology. Conversation about that. And just like where, you know, he references the command, but where did that come from? And we came up with a few places that that could point to. Do you want

Corrie McKee: 35:08

to share those? I don't have them in front of me. Do you have them in front

Heather Winchell: 35:11

of you? I do actually have them in front of me. Yeah. So we see in Matthew 1010, and Luke seven, that the worker is worth his wage. In First Timothy 518, we see counsel for paying preachers and teachers. And then, you know, back in Deuteronomy, which obviously isn't New Testament, but that's okay. It's all one story written by God where it references or where it speaks to, don't muzzle the ox that treads the grain. Yes,

Corrie McKee: 35:39

that's right. I wonder

Andy Brennan: 35:40

if there's also, like, a just a cultural understanding, like an undercurrent of this is what happens in society where a rabbi is reimbursed for his teaching, or something that isn't necessarily like everybody kind of understands that too. I wonder if there's some cultural things we're not getting to Yeah, yeah.

Heather Winchell: 35:59

But I do, I do want to address tent making, because that is something that can often come up, you know, where people are, maybe they understand, yeah, there's a biblical basis for living on the support of others, but there's also a biblical basis for tent making and businesses mission and things like that, right? Like Paul literally made tents. And so I think that's a really helpful thing for us to touch on. And I'm curious, you know, I have some thoughts. Wonder what you guys would want to say to that. My

Andy Brennan: 36:25

initial thought as you were talking was, Don't worry about us. We're we're not worried about keeping our jobs as as fundraising coaches. If God is asking you to do Business as Mission, then do it right. There's freedom. There's freedom in there. So

Corrie McKee: 36:40

I think what I've seen with the businesses mission people, is that they actually see all of the operational things that they do as a ministry that, I mean, they actually sometimes they'll need a CTO or a CFO, and that will be their ministry, or, you know, they'll be grinding coffee beans or making chocolate or whatever it is that they're doing in the 1040 Window, and they're training local people how to do those things, and that's their ministry. And if they had gone into it with the idea of, I'm just going to be sharing with people about Jesus all day, and on the side, I'll support myself while I do this business. They would be sorely disappointed, you know, but if they saw it more holistically as like, I'm going to go into the operations of this business, and this is going to be my life, and I'm going to live my life for Christ and share him while I'm doing these things, then that makes more sense for them.

Andy Brennan: 37:40

Yeah, I have a personal example. We were in Asia as a family, and we attended the local international church where there was just kind of volunteer, you know, leadership, because at an international church, the congregation is so transient. They're there for different reasons, for different amounts of time. But there was a lovely Australian couple a little older than we were, and he was there in this country to run a business. Yes, he would come and preach. He was great. But he also saw, he employed, maybe, like 100 plus local workers, and he saw his ministry to those people. And so he would have people translate for him, and he would bring in, you know, he's very, very outgoing. He was very explicit and intentional about who he was and why he was there. So there, yeah, definitely saw his business as his ministry.

Corrie McKee: 38:30

It reminds me of, you know, education, because that's what we've all, you know, we've done education in the past and in the 1040 Window and we went there. It's not a cover, it's a actual thing that we're doing for excellence, right? For the sake of providing excellent education, you know? And that's that means so much to the local

Andy Brennan: 38:52

people, yeah,

Heather Winchell: 38:54

yeah. And to and to that point, to that example that you gave, I'm aware that you can be paid and paid handsomely to go and teach overseas, and there are some organizations that you fundraise to be sent to teach overseas. And so for any of our listeners that get hung up on, well, maybe I could go in this capacity, or maybe I should go in this capacity, or is it more holy to go in this capacity, or whatever? I really think it just comes down to what has God called you to? Is there a specific organization or a specific place that you feel that you're supposed to go to? What are your avenues to get there? There's freedom. You might go in a tent making capacity. You might go with payment from whatever entity, or you might go under the care of an organization that is set up in a way that your needs are met through the generosity of others. And I mean, I think it's just so important to not. Make that decision about the money, because there's actually so much else to think through, like, you know, going through an organization, and I'm not trying to plug organizations, but the reality is that being sent by a faith based entity is likely going to account for and provide for all kinds of things outside of the money. Member care. International protocols for evacuating, like going under the care of someone can provide team, yeah, into a team, yeah, that can provide so much non monetary support, yeah.

Andy Brennan: 40:35

I think the question is like, what is the invitation? Yes, what is Lord asking you to do? And what is your what is your inhibition to that? What if Lord's asking you to do something, what's preventing you from doing that? And if he's asking you to serve with an organization, are you hesitant because you don't want to raise funds? In that case, I would say the invitation is to embrace that and wade into that. Right?

Corrie McKee: 41:02

Easier said than done.

Heather Winchell: 41:05

Totally done. But here's the deal, guys, when has the call of God ever been as easy to do as it is to say? Right? Abraham literally went not knowing where he was going. Esther literally went before the king, not knowing if she would perish,

Andy Brennan: 41:23

right? The

Heather Winchell: 41:24

the widow gave to Elijah, even though it was the very last bit, like, it's never, yeah, easy as easy to do, as much as it's easy to say, if it

Andy Brennan: 41:37

was easy, then it wouldn't require faith, right?

Corrie McKee: 41:41

Oh, boy. And the point

Andy Brennan: 41:43

is, right, like the Great Commission isn't a suggestion, it's not an option. So regardless of what aspect of it, you know, Jerusalem, Judea Samaria, the ends of the earth, like you're called to do something, whether it's to go or to give you got to do something great. So as we're getting a little bit long here, I don't know, Corey, are there some other passages that we can just reference real quick for people if they want to just kind of be a good Berean study on their own time.

Corrie McKee: 42:20

So Matthew 1040, to 42 where Jesus says, whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and who welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person's reward. And our pastor actually preached on this passage on Sunday, and he likened it to people feeling like they don't really have a place in the body of Christ or an important place, because other people get to do the more interesting and exciting work, and all they do is just support. And so it was basically a sermon for everyone who supports and he mentioned several passages Old and New Testament. But one of the Old Testament ones he mentioned was where David's men, some are going into battle, some are staying with a baggage. Yes, and you know, they're saying, Oh, well, those people who stayed with the baggage, they shouldn't get a reward. And David said they should get the same reward because they supported the troops. Yeah, and then also third, John, five through eight, John is encouraging the church to support missionaries that they don't even know personally, and so showing hospitality to people they don't know. And he said, it was for the sake of the name that they went out receiving no help from the pagans. We ought therefore to show hospitality to such people so that we may work together for the truth. So even like I have had so many people who have shown me hospitality over the years, being in missions and full time ministry. And lots of those people I did not know before, they showed me hospitality. And I love that phrase, so we can work together for the truth. There's, there's just an automatic like connection with with people who are willing to support, to stay back, to watch the baggage, to provide a house. You know, it is

Andy Brennan: 44:21

the unity of the Body of Christ that is one of our leading testimonies to its fruitfulness and to its truth, like it doesn't happen naturally, like we're so tribal normally, but to like, wow, yeah, I'm gonna support this person that I don't know, or we're two strangers that are introduced to a team, and suddenly we just, We click, and everybody's like, Oh, you've known this person for a long time. No, I just met them. The unity of the Body of Christ is significant. And I love that little line, for the sake of the name. Again, it's all for it's all for His glory. Like, that's, that's the key for this whole thing, the giving, the receiving, the generosity, the going, the Be. Audience all for his name.

Corrie McKee: 45:04

So true.

Heather Winchell: 45:06

Well, I hope that this conversation has done the work of encouraging the listener to push into the really beautiful examples throughout scripture of the church, in partnership with scent workers and in ministry to

Andy Brennan: 45:23

the glory of God. And the last one, I'll leave you with, dear listener, if you're still hesitant, look at Luke eight verses one through three, where you have an account of these women who are taking care of Jesus, that are giving to Jesus's ministry. And if anybody could have taken care of themselves as Jesus, that's right, but he modeled that for us. He allowed

Corrie McKee: 45:45

himself to be supported and by women, which in that day was quite taboo, pretty amazing. And my final word would be that as missionaries, every time we share the gospel or help a new believer learn how to follow Jesus, our sending churches through their support. Are standing behind us. They're cheering us on, and they're receiving credit in the kingdom for the harvest. When they stand, we all stand before Jesus. One day, Jesus is going to look at the church and say, Thank you for this work in the harvest. And you know, as a supporting church, if you're a pastor listening to this, I hope that that will really encourage you. And if you're a missionary, why would you ever hesitate to share an opportunity for a church to partner with you? Amen,

Andy Brennan: 46:37

that's a good mic drop. Yep,

Heather Winchell: 46:39

that is. Well, thank you, Corey, for being with us again. Thanks, Andy,

Andy Brennan: 46:47

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