51.5 Go ‘Til No: RECAP from our time with Ekren Miller

In this  recap episode, Heather Winchell and Andy Brennan revisit their conversation with veteran fundraiser Ekren Miller. Discover why fundraising is an invitation—not begging—and how to cultivate donors through his “Four Pillars” framework: Qualification, Cultivation, Solicitation, and Stewardship. Hear creative cultivation ideas (from yard work to babysitting!), learn how to handle “no” with resilience, and uncover why fundraising shapes who you become. Tune in and walk away with concrete strategies to build lasting donor relationships.

Key Takeaways

• Fundraising Is Invitation: Embrace generosity as relationship, not transaction. ​
• Four‑Pillar Framework: Qualify → Cultivate → Solicit → Steward. ​
• Creative Cultivation: Offer your time & talents to deepen donor trust. ​
• “Go Until No”: Persist until you hear an explicit refusal. ​
• Mindset Shift: View “no” as circumstance, and lean on discipline over emotion. 

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Transcript

All right guys. Welcome back to the show. We're recapping Ekren Miller's episode, and this as a reminder, like he's a, he's a great guy, he's an experienced fundraiser, and we talked about the principles of fundraising. We focused on relationship building, crafting the effective ask donor stewardship, a lot of this stuff.

So let's just jump right into the top here. I think the, one of the things that stood out to me right away is that, um. Fundraising is an invitation. Mm-hmm. And it's not begging. Right. And we've, we talk about that, but it, it, it warrants, uh, repeating again and again and again. Right. So we talked about Henry Nowan.

We talked about, um, not kind of going to your donors with your hat in your hand. Um, we had this example of. This Texas fundraiser who, , welcomes people in my mind into as well, um, appropriated, uh, den with in my mind like [00:01:00] a, an animal head on the wall and like, uh, things, mahogany furniture, mahogany, a library, leather furniture.

Something in a display case. Yeah. Or something. Maybe golf stuff. I don't know. Golf paraphernalia in the corner. Right. Maybe a, maybe a, a putting green. Oh yeah. Yeah.

How do you feel that translates though to, I mean, do you agree with now in a hundred percent or do you think that really translates? Or what do we need to be careful about when we think about, um, individual ministry fundraisers? Yeah. I don't think that what no one was saying is, you know, try to impress with your appearance.

Right. I think it was trying to get it just like, be who you are and, and don't downplay, don't look like a beggar. Yeah. Be who you are. Put your best foot forward. Show people that they can trust. Yeah. What they're entrusting to you because , the ambiance you've set communicates [00:02:00] I steward well, yeah.

And things like that, right? Yeah. So it's not so much, uh, the external environment that you're welcoming people into. It's maybe like the, the internal wealth. Mm. Yeah. That you realize that this is what I'm a part of. I get, no, I don't have a Land Rover, but I get to rove the lands. We can, we can cut that out.

I'm leaving it. Okay. But you do have a certain amount of, of, of spiritual wealth, and we talk about this when you make decisions not to. Pursue the typical path or the career ladder or the rat race, like, um, you, you do get ruined for the ordinary by the, the generosity of a loving God who mm-hmm. Who just says this is actually what life is about.

Mm-hmm. And think about the people that have to work so hard just to get a few days of vacation. Mm-hmm. When you have a slow, I mean, I don't know about your experience on the field, but I have a slower pace of life. Mm. Mm-hmm. And I [00:03:00] got a lot of time with my family, and I think people, I know there's multimillionaires that would just not kill, but they would really love to spend more time with their families.

Mm-hmm. But they've made certain choices that prohibit that. Mm-hmm. So there's a, there's an interior wealth I think, that we can definitely agree with. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I wonder, dear listener, if you're, if you're hearing this, if you've ever actually felt kind of apologetic. Mm mm-hmm. Asking for support. Asking for support. Yeah. And what, and what should you do? Like what, what would you think they should do if they, if they say yes, maybe just reflect on why do you think that is?

Certainly in North American culture, there is this kind of understanding that we don't talk about money, we don't need or depend on other people. Mm-hmm. So certainly that's at play. But yeah, I think it can be helpful to just GE even go a layer deeper, thinking about your own family system, what you learned about [00:04:00] money, what you learned about need, and how safe it was to depend on or need things from other people.

I. We've referenced this before, but we have several episodes that speak to these things. You know, I think of obviously the episode with the counselors talking about our scripts around money. The episode we had with Dr. Monroe from Wheaton. Yeah. About the things we believe, I mean, our soundtracks episode most recently.

Just, yeah, there's reasons that we operate in the ideas that we hold and the idea that asking. For support is something you have to feel bad about or feel sorry for. Yeah. There's a reason you have that idea. And it could be like we talked about how you were raised. Like it could be even the church environment that you were raised in your church could have this misconception that fundraising is like begging.

Mm-hmm. And so I think that speaks to the need for us to help to rewire them a little bit. Mm-hmm. And. [00:05:00] That could stop, that could start from like a grassroots movement of, of no, this is, this is why I'm doing what I'm doing. But I, I think it is changing. I get the sense that it's changing over time. Mm-hmm.

Um, I don't think I've told this story before, but stop me if I have, I was having this conversation with my mom recently where she was, she was telling me that when she and her and my dad were raising money to go to the mission field, the Papua New Guinea, to help, uh, with translation work, uh, with Wycliffe.

Um, when my great-grandmother heard that my dad had built the house there in Rumpa, um. With, with help, but he had built a house and it was, it was nice, it was traditional, you know, it had, uh, walls and windows in a roof. She was beside herself. She was furious because they weren't sleeping on the floor on like the dirt floor in some hut, because in her mind, that's what, that's what a missionary's life should look like.[00:06:00] 

Wow. Now she grew up, you know, depression, era. You know, had, that's a whole, there's a whole lore connected with my great-grandmother that I won't get into now. But, um, I do think some people are that, that worldview and mindset is lingering, unfortunately with some people, but I think it feels like it's kind of phasing out.

Yeah. That is so interesting. So it's almost kind of this like romanticized view of Yeah. The missionary being same, same as the native people, and that there's not really room for the missionary to live in a different way, especially if it appears as though it's a more affluent way or something. Yeah. I don't know if that's what it was.

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Or just that a a, a missionary, if they're on support should be living in poverty. Yeah. Like that whole poverty mindset. Right. Interesting. And I, I do believe that she ended up sending my parents some used tea bags. [00:07:00] Wow. As used tea bags, right. As a, as a care in the care package, along with other things.

But like, here's here, you, you can use, you can use these tea bag, these tea bags. Uh, there's still a little bit of life left in those. Yeah. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. Interesting. I don't think you've told that story here before, so. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't know, maybe this feels really dissonant from that story, but I, I would definitely want to unpack and talk about Ekren's four pillars.

Yeah. The kind of the stages that he Yeah. Hard pivot takes people to, sorry about that. Yeah. I mean, in all fairness, we did not talk with Ekron about used tea bags, so no, we didn't. You're the one that took us off course, man. I did. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So Ekren's four pillars are, just to recap real quick. Mm-hmm. Qualify. So Ekren's four pillars. Just to recap real quick, qualification, which is the process of identifying potential donors. Cultivation, which is, uh, building relationships, [00:08:00] solicitation making the ask and stewardship, which is the, the thinking and the maintaining the following up again and again and again.

To me, it feels like. I feel really confident and comfortable with the last two. Mm-hmm. And we have a lot of teaching on that. To me, it feels to digress a little bit when we get into, well, how do I qualify people and how do I really cultivate it? It looks a little bit different in my mind for an individual, right.

Donor. Yeah. I was actually going to ask, you know, he said he spends the majority of his time in cultivation, I think. Right. Sometimes when he was talking about the way that they mark his time. And so I was just wondering, you know, in your own process, where do you feel you spent the most time in your fundraising career?

The, the fourth pillar? Yeah. By far. Right? I mean, the cultivation happened organically. Mm-hmm. And it was just, these are the people that I know in my life. So there wasn't necessarily a, a qualification phase at [00:09:00] all. Right. It was like. I'm just gonna get to know people and oh, by the way, I am going on the mission field.

Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like for the individual fundraiser, the qualification and cultivation piece are just kind of like, God's just kind of like this, this partnering with God and just like building your life as it is. Right? Like he. The qualification is just kind of the context you grow up in, the people you have opportunity to engage and meet and share life with over Yeah.

Years and years. Right. But maybe this is where things start to get divergent when we have somebody who has grown up in the church and, and maybe in an affluent, um, neighborhood or community or the Bible belt or somebody who's a, a brand new believer. Totally. Or someone who has grown up in a not affluent neighborhood.

Mm-hmm. Um. That it can be, that that's where we start to see the, the disparity, I think. [00:10:00] Well, and I guess that's where the power of referrals comes in. You know, I remember when we spoke with Tony Denman, and he, he mentioned that he did, he did not have a life that set him up to fundraise. Right. Such a good episode.

Yes, such a great episode. And so I think that qualification in that sense is done by. Other people in the referrals they give you. Yes. So maybe if you come from this background, that's a little more challenging. Mm-hmm. You have to lean into those first two pillars.

Mm-hmm. Yes. You really do. Yeah. Yeah. And you have to, you have to get people on your side who are willing to help you. Qualify mm-hmm. Help you identify people that might be willing to give and then go through the effort of, of cultivating that and not just resting on, well, I'm gonna send 'em a text. Mm-hmm.

I'm gonna send 'em a newsletter, I'll pop by once, you know, give it some time. Mm-hmm. Right. Ask those people in your network, uh, who else has affinity for what I'm doing? Mm-hmm. That's, that was an Ekren term [00:11:00] that I really liked. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Um, ask them for advice as the leaders or as the kind of the thought leaders or just social leaders in your circle.

Ask them for advice. Like, who, who should I go to? Who would you recommend? Mm-hmm. Um, and keep working your way through people and don't, don't give up on that. I love what Tony said. It's like we don't beg for money, but we do beg for referrals. For referrals. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Something I really loved that Ekron said that would probably fall more into.

Cultivation or stewardship is just this idea that when he was home, he would offer like his time and energy towards work days. Yeah. To show donors that he really like valued them and wanted to invest in them as well. I thought that was really cool. It kind of made me wish that I was one of his donors.

Yeah. I have some weeds for you, Ekren. Yeah. But it, it did make me think like, you know, and this is. Uh, we, we often talk about how it's not a formula. There's not [00:12:00] just one way to do this, and I loved that creative way that he kind of worked with his own giftings to offer something Yeah. Out of the norm. And I'm, I'm curious, have you run across any other maybe low cost, authentic ways that people cultivate donors or show their appreciation?

Not off the top of my head, but it makes me feel like I, I wish I would've been a little more creative. Yeah. Um, but I mean, like, maybe just offering some babysitting. Mm-hmm. Yeah. If you were single. Mm-hmm. And, you know, your family's, uh, your, your donor families are just that, they're what's end or whatever.

Like that could be really mm-hmm. Helpful, I think. Mm-hmm. Love the yard work. Love the, the shoveling of snow. Well, and you know what this makes me think of, this was early season four, our conversation with. Kenton where he talked about how the spirit led him to give, I think it was like a button. Do you remember this?

Yeah. Yeah. There was a button, like a rare antique button that he had that [00:13:00] these people he knew. Really loved and he gave it to them and because of how rare it was and unique. Yeah. That was like a way that it really expressed love to them. And so, I mean, I guess I'm the one that asked you the question, but now I'm saying I wonder if we just expect the spirit to give ideas if he will.

Yeah. And be open to that. Like Yeah, like yeah. I mean, yes. Thank, send them thank you cards. Send 'em a postcard from country. That's the baseline. Yeah. But let's get into a, a, maybe a habit of praying. Lord, guide me and direct me and help me to know how I can bless this individual. Yeah. You know, so to what you just said, I came across a passage in Acts like a few weeks ago, maybe.

I've talked about it on here before, but it just really struck me because I was reading about how Paul was speaking and it said. That God opened Lydia's heart to pay attention. Mm. And that's when she received the gospel. And so I've just been thinking a lot since then and praying a lot, open my heart to pay attention.[00:14:00] 

And so I feel like that is kind of what you're saying, just like spirit open my heart to pay attention. Yeah. And, and that kind of dovetails with, I think it was, was it Lon that said, when you're out and about and you see something, text people and tell them Yes. I love that. Yeah. I've told that to so many people.

Right. Because, and I think what that communicates is. You know, with any of these practical recommendations and these kind of, you know, systems that people can work through, there's, there's always this tension between just working the system to get the outcome versus Right. Entrusting yourself to the system knowing that it produces a certain outcome.

You know what I mean? Right, right, right, right. And so we want people to lean in to being aware, paying attention, and responding to that, not trying to curate that so that. Donors will respond in a certain way. Mm-hmm. But just genuinely having an intention to like, love them. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if it was Mary, I think it was that, that video you sent me about, uh, body language.[00:15:00] 

Oh, I think that's where it's from. Okay. But I have said that a lot. Okay. Yeah. I think we have to be careful about how we frame this When we are, you're circling back to a donor and say, Hey, thank you so much. Let me show appreciation for what you did. So they realize that it's not, that is that it is a thank you.

And it's not like a transaction or an exchange for the money that they gave. Right. Right. Right. That can be kind of a, a tightrope situation. Right, right. We don't want people to think that, oh, if I keep giving then I'm gonna get a payout here. Right. We want it to come out a sense of like offering not obligatory.

Yes. Yeah. Right, right, right.

I also thought it was really interesting that Ekren just named that wealth does not equal generosity. I think we certainly know that to be true. We coach people on not expecting people to give just because they drive a certain car or they Yep. Have a certain kind of house or, or even be, you know, maybe they give to your friend or [00:16:00] something.

Right? Yeah. Like there's all kinds of things that can queue us up to have a certain expectation, but ultimately. That might not be the person that God is bringing to you. Yeah. Yeah. At the end of the day, you, you don't know how, how the Lord is leading somebody. We say that again and again and again like and. How, how do you know unless you are spreading the net widely, unless you are talking about it every opportunity that you have. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think, you know, again, you don't really wanna force that, but if that's just, if this is who you are and this is the vision that you have to do this, it's gonna come up naturally.

Mm-hmm. So don't, don't quench that. Don't squelch that down. Um, I think the Lord uses that to, to maybe bring up those conversations and maybe nothing. It happens financially, but maybe that person's encouraged. Mm-hmm. I think we have to be willing to, to let it all out there and it's receive whatever comes back.

Mm-hmm. Well, you just never know what might happen down the line. You know, I'm [00:17:00] thinking of a conversation that we had, I think it was season two with Misty, and Misty and her family have been positioned to. Give generously. Right. To give generously. And she even told us that, very rarely do they kind of say yes and join people in a routine way.

Right. And that instead they, they just kind of have this like pool of money that they seek the spirit and give. Yeah. And I think she even mentioned that there were people that like over time the spirit would bring them to mind and they would give Okay.

Even if initially they didn't. Mm-hmm. So yeah, I just, I don't know. I think that, you know, on one hand, don't seek out people because you think they have money to give and target them. 'cause that target that wouldn't be helpful. And then also if they say no, that doesn't mean it's no forever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a, it's a unique balance between, we, we don't wanna like[00:18:00] 

see people just for their finances. Right. But Ekren does talk about like qualifying donors and capacity. And capacity, so, right. We have to hold those two things in tension. Yeah. Um, and I think from a, from a fundraiser's perspective, it can be a little, almost. Disheartening to hear Misty when we were like, well, it would be so much easier if he would just keep giving.

Mm. But I think the invitation there is to treat it like a relationship. Mm-hmm. Not just like I, I have this, I. This steady stream of income. It's not a stream of income. That's a person. Mm-hmm. And it's a partnership. It's a relationship. And so when Misty does that, she forces that fundraiser to reengage.

Yeah. Well, and also, I mean, okay. Actually, I don't think this has come up much in season four, but season three is like all about Elijah. Right. And I just, you know. I think about if, if God [00:19:00] had just kind of kept it, same, same. Like, all right.

The Ravens bringing food, the brook bringing water. Yep. There would've never been the disruption and the need for the widow, which was actually consequential for everybody involved. Right. And that was needed. Yeah. And so I think that we can just trust that when there's disruptions or when things aren't maybe routine or, or they have to change.

God is up to something. Yeah. See God in the disruption. Yes. Yeah. And, and his glory Yeah. Is probably on the line. Yeah. I think what we want is for things to be consistent and steady and comfortable and predictable. But that's not always good for, it's, it's usually not good for us.

As you said those words, I felt such calm in my body. Yeah. But I think, you know, if we did have that after a while, like what does that do to us? I think we'd become complacent. We'd become We have no need. We have no need or, and there's not dependence without need. Yeah, absolutely. So [00:20:00] it's hard, but it is.

But it's so good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And not to make light of how challenging it is to walk through those things a hundred percent, but, but I mean, we rest, we rest on the solid foundation that God is trustworthy and that God's purposes will stand. Yeah. And that's, that's the anchor. Yeah. Right. That's the, that's the thing that holds us in hope.

Yeah. Well, let's get a little bit practical here for a second and. Can we explore, like how, what are some strategies for turning like a sporadic donor and it maybe it's the donor isn't being as intentional to think through it as Misty would like they just happened to be giving sporadically. Right. How do we, how do we get them to be more consistent?

Yeah. I mean, I think you could always start with a spirit led direct conversation. I think you could always express gratitude and just ask directly if they would be willing to. You know, to give that amount for the next six months or [00:21:00] the next year or two years or whatever. Mm-hmm. I mean, I think that, and again, I say spirit led because maybe, maybe that's not the way to do it, but that that feels like an next right thing.

Mm-hmm. A direct conversation. Mm-hmm. I think, I think you're right. I think it depends on the moment and the situation. The scenario. Mm-hmm. I think of our friend. Who was raising funds to go to Japan mm-hmm.

For many years. Mm-hmm. Uh, and I think she had made progress, but then had kind of stalled for a while. Uh, the thing that really impressed me that got me to actually give more was just circling back to me mm-hmm. As a donor and asking for it. Well, look how close I am. Can I just, what do you think about a little bit more?

Mm-hmm. Like, what about these two options? Mm-hmm. And I was like. It's like, sure, I can give 10, 15, 20 bucks more. Mm-hmm. That's not a big deal. But if everybody's doing that right, that really does help. Right? So I think it's normal, especially if you've been on the field for a long time. Um, your expenses are going to change.

Cost of living goes up. Your [00:22:00] circumstances, uh, morph. You, maybe you have new goals, maybe they're, you have a new child, whatever it is like. It's unrealistic for your donors to expect and for anybody to expect that your budget is static. Mm-hmm. So how does it, what does it look like to circle back to them and say, Hey, we're doing a new, uh, a new, a new drive.

Mm-hmm. Just to kind of get us back up to fully funded again. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Seems very palatable for a donor. I really loved that when we asked Ekren what one of the biggest surprises in his field was that he said he was most surprised by how generous people are. Mm. I loved that. That's so good. Yeah. I really loved that.

It shouldn't be surprising, but it really is. Mm-hmm. Um, I think we. Maybe that just speaks to our own hearts and how, how we just, we, we assume that people are gonna be stingy or Mm. I don't know where that comes from, but, [00:23:00] um, yeah. Let's, let's, let's start, uh, reframing and, and, uh, recasting what people think about.

Donating. Donating and being generous. And although I don't know, Andy, in thinking about the generosity of God, I think it should always take us by surprise and wow our hearts. I don't think we should ever get so comfortable with it that we stop being like awed. Sure. And so it's like also as that image of God is reflected in humanity, maybe we shouldn't get to the point where we expect that because maybe that comes at the cost of the like genuine gratitude and awe and wonder.

Well, or maybe it's like Tony said. Right. Like as, as he saw God act, God gave him, God expanded his need so that his faith continued to be stretched. Sure. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Right. So, well, yeah, maybe like faithful and a little entrusted with more, maybe that's how that works. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

So [00:24:00] maybe in contrast to the generosity. What about, no. Mm-hmm. What about when you get the answer of no? You know, we kind of talked with Ekren a bit about that. Mm-hmm. And his, his mantra. Go until no. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like maybe I can see in his work that that's probably a really helpful right.

Guiding principle. Right. I think that in, actually, I do think there's a lot of context in individual fundraising where that can be helpful because I think sometimes. People don't go until it's a no because they, you know, they ping people a couple of times and don't hear back and they assume that people aren't interested or that people don't want to give.

Yeah. And they don't assume, well, they're just busy, but they're excited to talk to me, you know? Right, right. So, so there is a sense in which I think that can be helpful. Yes, absolutely. I think probably most of the time it is, if they haven't directly said, no, it is an assumption. Mm-hmm. Like, we're just trying to read between the [00:25:00] lines.

Mm-hmm. Um, 'cause think about it. If, if somebody has taken the time to sit down and read your letter or your, your beautifully crafted email, and I'm assuming we're on the front end of, of a, a kind of onboarding donors, if they've taken the time to do that, they've responded to a text or an email, they've sat down and had coffee with you and heard your whole vision and spiel.

They said something like. Yeah, I think so. I think I want to do that. I think a lot of times we don't give that enough weight. Mm-hmm. Like if they did all, if, if they said all those yeses, well this is what I coach people all the time. It is now your job to close that circle. Mm-hmm.

Uh, they've said enough yeses. We have to help them land, the plane. Right, right. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. And you know, this isn't to minimize that. It really can be hard to hear. No, and I do think it's one of those things that as you ask, which positions you to [00:26:00] receive an answer, and as you maybe even challenge your own ideas about what a no means, I'm thinking of our conversation with Kelly Davis, where she mm-hmm.

Saw a no as a yes to somebody else. Like as you do that, I think that your own tolerance for hearing that. Will grow. Yeah. So if you're like fresh into support based work and raising personal support, you are going to have some kind of emotional response to know it's gonna feel tender.

We're not trying to tell you that, like, that's wrong. I think we're just trying to tell you that doesn't mean you've done something wrong, right? Yeah. You, you, your, your skin will thicken. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I loved Ekren's thought here.

He said, view it as a reflection of a donor's circumstances, not the fundraiser's worth. Mm mm-hmm. That seems so helpful. Mm-hmm. Again, it's not about you, it's not a reflection of you or, or what you're doing. It's just this is a, this is the environment that this person happens to be in at this moment.

Yeah. And you can [00:27:00] trust that it's for your benefit. Absolutely. Because as you were saying, it's going to thicken your skin. You know what I immediately thought of, I. I actually immediately thought of how when you're learning to play guitar, it's like really painful, but it develops calluses. But the calluses are like, what enable you to play?

Yes. And so I think, I think we can just trust that if there's, if there's something that's creating some level of like wounding or exposure or something that we can trust that God will steward that to a good end. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. And it still hurts for the first few months. Yeah. Playing guitar, right?

Yeah. But you're never gonna become Carlos Santana. I mean, I'm dating myself there. Yeah. Yeah. Trace Bundy, not sure if anybody's heard of him. Have you heard of him? Phil Keagy? No, I haven't heard of that person. Oh man, you gotta look him up.


Yeah. I really loved the example he [00:28:00] gave about how he mentioned the Turkish tulip. To his, the people that he was supporting and that like, I feel like it was even a couple years later, or they, they brought him an initial gift that was like a bag from a grocery store or something that had the Turkish tulip, but then they brought him a tapestry that's, yeah.

Next level. Yeah. Yeah. I loved that. Yeah. And honestly, I, it made me think of my own, my own experience. One of the things I really loved about my time overseas was. Finding and selecting things to bring back home for people. Mm. That was like a real delight for me. I'm a gifts person. Mm-hmm. And I could just, as he was telling that story, I could just remember how satisfying it felt to get a well.

Chosen gift. Yeah. For somebody that I wanted to thank. Right. Yeah. Well, what, what, what would you say to those people that are like, not gift givers, that that's kind of stresses them out a little bit? Yeah. I would say talk to people on your team, your, you [00:29:00] know, your local team or your core team. That might be gift people.

Honestly, these days we have things like chat, GBT or grok or there's like all kinds of things that can generate ideas. Yeah. That I think you can then execute on. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Or even just simply like keeping a spreadsheet of your donors and having a field that says, here's the things they like. Yeah.

Or if you don't have insight into that, even bringing a local person into it, like the lady that you buy. Fruit farmer, something like, Hey, what is something from your culture that you think an American would love to get or something? I don't know. Yeah. Because even in that, there's a personal piece of it.

Like, my fruit vendor told me that I should give this to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's even more meaningful than like, oh crap, I'm in the airport and I'm headed home, and what should I do? You know, what's the local, right, right, right, right. I got you. This key chain with, it's a flip flop and it says Maui on it, or, yeah, whatever.

It's, yeah. [00:30:00] Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Asking them like, what is the local delicacy? Mm mm-hmm. That only the insiders know about it, or only the people travel to hear from that are also from this country. Go to this city, this village because it has the best tea, the best local honey, the best, whatever that is.

Mm-hmm. And bring that back and then give it. Then you have a story connected to it. That's great. You know what? It strikes me that even in that context, you could bring back used tea bags and that would probably be well received. Full circle. Yeah.

Anything else from what Ekren said that you wanna highlight?

It is interesting to think about how do we need to adapt our stewardship based on the demographic of our donors? Mm. Mm-hmm. What do you think about that? Like, I have a, I have a Gen Z donor all the way up to a boomer. What strategies do you think would be helpful? Yeah. I mean, I think as in many [00:31:00] things, it's probably just holding the tension between wanting to meet people where they are and proactively seeking out how you can be informed, but then also just being aware and not putting yourself in a position where you are in a negative way, becoming all things to all people.

Like in a way where, oh, yeah, you're, you're not showing up real anymore. Hmm. Yeah, so, so. In ways that make sense for you, be all things to all people, like Paul says, yeah, but not at the expense of being real and authentic. Right. You're not some, uh, chameleon trying to blend into everything. Right. Social environment.

Right? What does this group need me to be? Right? Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, I, again, I'm gonna kick it back to really the more information you can have about the way you work and the ways God has like gifted you. I really think the easier it will be to see how that plays out with different people.

Hmm. Right. Like if you know what you're, if you have an understanding [00:32:00] of your spiritual gifts, then you're going to. Maybe even be more aware of like how the spirit infuses his power in that no matter the circumstance or if you're aware of your strengths or, or the things that you're not as strong in, like if you, okay.

I don't really like social media. Mm-hmm. People that follow our Instagram account will probably be like our Visio Instagram account. Yeah. Or it's not about the money. 'cause they're like, you don't really do a lot. Yeah. For me as somebody who, that's just not a space that I like to spend a lot of time or intuitively have a lot for, which is probably good maybe actually for me to decide that that's where, that's the only place I'm going to engage, you know, gen Z or whatever.

Maybe it feels like a smart move, but it's like, not gonna work because I'm not authentically able to do that, and it will just kind of always be energy draining. Yeah. Versus knowing like, Hey, maybe once a week I'll like pop something on the air and they'll feel and, and maybe they can pick up that, [00:33:00] oh, she doesn't even like doing this probably.

Right. Yeah. This, this feels like a stretch for her. Yeah.


How about you? What would you say?

To me it speaks to the need to have a holistic kind of strategic communication strategy and not lean on, well, I'm just gonna do Instagram and Yeah. You know, if my donors aren't there that I can't help it. I don't have the, I don't have the margin for that. Sure. I think we need to make margin to a certain extent to meet people where they are.

Mm-hmm. And. If everybody's on email, if everybody's in Facebook, I mean, maybe we have, we have to discipline ourselves just to do that a little bit. And like a job. Mm-hmm. And put it into our, our calendar. Yeah. Um, and just say, I'm gonna do that every once in a while. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm saying don't force yourself into a box that doesn't fit who you are.

Yeah. Which is helpful. And you are saying, Hey, be willing to like, let your box of who you are expand a little bit. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good.

Well, and that's [00:34:00] kinda the final point that I'd like to highlight is that fundraising does take discipline. Mm-hmm. And takes perseverance. And that's what he just, Ekren encouraged us. Like there is discipline involved. Um, I. You can't rely, he, he advised against relying on our feelings alone. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

You're not always going to feel like it. Yeah. I mean, I think Ekren is wired in such a way where he doesn't take things personally, but I think we have to get to that point as well. Mm-hmm. And just be able to activate and keep going. Um, regardless of, of the, the, the moment or the current, the, the recent track record, and just know that it's the, it's the vision that drives us not.

People's answers. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So if you have not listened to Ekren's episode yet, we would highly encourage you to do so. Why are you listening to the recap first? Yeah. Really, after all, I mean, sometimes people get out of order. It's okay. It's okay. Yeah. Yeah. [00:35:00] But, excellent episode. And then after this coming up next week, we kick off our church partnerships miniseries.

Mm-hmm. Which is a great time. Very practical. Very practical. So we'll catch you next time. Thanks for joining us.